24 



cultural communities don't exist the way they used to because of 

 that narrow focus and goal. And I think it is important for us now 

 in the Northwest to try to do things that will protect that social 

 fabric, and the way to do that is the natural resource base needs to 

 be protected. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. Thank you. I probably should have asked my ear- 

 lier question in a way that you could only give a yes or no answer. 

 I am going to take one more run at it. Is it possible to have an eco- 

 system approach without interagency cooperation? 



Mr. DoppELT. No. 



Mr. Karr. No. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. OK. Because that is what I was fishing for — is 

 that the Federal, the state, all of the agencies are really going to 

 have to work together. And you want to do a P.S. on that? 



Mr. DoppELT. Yes, if I may. We have done extensive study on the 

 agency cooperation issue, and I just want to suggest that we believe 

 that just cooperation may never be possible when agencies have 

 different missions and goals legislatively established, that, in fact, 

 cooperation is not necessarily what we want. It is policy and mis- 

 sion alignment within a watershed, and it is very different, that 

 they are all using the same resource standards, the same standards 

 and rules for riparian protections, et cetera, that aligning the dif- 

 ferent policies and missions is really what is needed, not coopera- 

 tion although that is helpful. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. A good new term. And if we don't align those 

 policies and have an integration among the Federal agencies — if we 

 can't do that, how in the world are we going to get the private 

 landowners to be involved? And one other yes or no question. Is 

 there a mechanism in place now to coordinate the regional efforts 

 to protect riparian areas? 



Mr. Naiman. No. 



Mr. Karr. No. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. I would like to thank this panel, and what I 

 would like to lay out to you also, you have described eloquently the 

 problems and some of the approach — the technical things that need 

 to be changed in order to approach these problems. If you also have 

 ideas on the "how" we do it that should be integrated into legisla- 

 tion so that there are those visible pilot programs or whatever so 

 people want to change because getting the human species to 

 change its habits is sometimes more difficult than the technical 

 analysis of the problem and the theoretical solution. But I thank 

 you very, very much, and I hope you will stay in close contact with 

 the committee. The second panel? I see at this time we have an in- 

 tegrated panel. I will call on Dr. Hershberger first. 



STATEMENT OF WILLIAM HERSHBERGER, SCHOOL OF FISHER- 

 lES, UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON, SEATTLE, WASHINGTON 



Mr. Hershberger. Thank you. I want to thank you for giving me 

 the opportunity to testify before this subcommittee. It is a subject 

 that I am personally and professionally immersed in in the Pacific 

 Northwest, and it is also an important resource as far as the eco- 

 nomic component of the Pacific Northwest and an important indi- 

 cator of our way of life. 



