21 



Mr. Hamburg. So the Corps takes over at that point. Did you 

 want to comment on that? 



Mr. Wayland. I think one of the concerns we are attempting to 

 reach with this statement of principles among the agencies was a 

 concern on the part of people in the Department of Agriculture 

 that a determination would be made by SCS under Swampbuster 

 as to which lands within a farming operation were wetlands, which 

 were prior converted croplands and which were croplands with no 

 wetland characteristics. 



Then at a later time, the farmer would attempt to rely on that 

 information and undertake land manipulation development activi- 

 ties, perhaps even undertake development activities only to learn 

 that another agency had determined that areas that were manipu- 

 lated were wetlands when that was not SCS's original determina- 

 tion. 



By working more closely with SCS to assure that a uniform 

 method was used and those decisions made by someone who is ac- 

 cessible to the farmer, we hope to avoid that concern that I'll get 

 one answer from one agency and a different answer from another 

 agency. 



If someone wants to build a shopping center on natural wetlands 

 on their farmland, they will have to come to the Corps and have a 

 review under the 404 program. That happens very rarely. 

 Mr. Hamburg. Where does the planning component come in? 

 Mr. Wayland. I think the major opportunity for planning efforts 

 is one we hope to engage States and local governments in, since in 

 many instances, they are making planning and land use decisions 

 with which these wetlands are involved. 



Mr. Hamburg. Can the Federal agency work with the local gov- 

 ernment entities to move these decisions forward in a way that is 

 consistent with Federal law? 



Mr. Wayland. That is something that EPA has been putting con- 

 siderable effort into that. 



Mr. Hamburg. Since SCS has so much experience, at least from 

 where I sit in northern California, I see SCS doing a lot of that 

 work anyway. We have SCS people in the communities with offices. 

 They are well-known. They are known by the private landowners. 

 They are known by the government agencies. They are trusted in 

 many cases. 



Should they not be the ones more directly involved in the plan- 

 ning issues where EPA and the Corps would continue to have these 

 regulatory enforcement responsibilities? 



Mr. Bridge. Well, my quick reaction to that would be that there 

 is a role there for the Soil Conservation Service to play, but I think 

 we ought to do it in partnership with both the Corps and EPA. 



If we can bring, for instance, the trust of the local people and 

 organize around a lot of units we already work with out there, we 

 ought to use that in a goodwill setting to work out some of these 

 problems and certainly play a role as a consultant, people who can 

 be sort of honest brokers out there among and between the people 

 involved. 



Mr. Hamburg. One other quick question with respect to the wet- 

 lands mitigation banking. I understand that they may be eligible 

 for funding through the State revolving loan funds. 



