28 



Mr. Wayland. If the land in question is a natural and not a 

 prior converted cropland and the construction of the Boy Scout 

 camp would entail placement of dredge material or fill material, 

 that would be subject to permitting by the Army Corps of Engi- 

 neers. If it was prior converted cropland it is not covered under the 

 program because of that determination. In other words, it has been 

 farmed and cropped and it is prior converted cropland, it can be 

 filled or otherwise manipulated without getting a permit, whether 

 it is by the farmer or the Boy Scouts. 



Mr. Taylor. If I got a permit by the Soil Conservation Service, 

 that gives me permission to do anything else with the lands as far 

 as wetlands are concerned? Are you saying that? 



Mr. Wayland. No, I don't mean to say that. It is possible that 

 those farming activities could be taking place on farmed wetlands 

 which are not prior converted wetlands under the Food Security 

 Act. In that instance, that farming activity could continue, but fill- 

 ing those areas for commercial development would require a 

 permit. 



Mr. Taylor. We are simplifying it again, I see. Let me ask you 

 about the manual that we are using or that you are planning to 

 use, the 1987 one. Does that mean — and the gentleman from Mary- 

 land's question addressed it a minute ago — water will be necessary 

 for a wetland now or may it be again soil type or plant type or any 

 of two of the three that is usually determinative. 



Mr. Wayland. The 1987 manual requires the presence of water, 

 saturation or inundation sufficient to force the establishment of a 

 predominantly wetland vegetative community and the presence of 

 hydric soils. 



Mr. Taylor. Thank you. Say I went into a tract of land and took 

 up all of the old buildings, et cetera, and started excavating in an 

 area that is now considered to be a wetland, say I dug up 100 acres 

 of my land. What is the penalty to me now for that which is consid- 

 ered a wetland? 



Mr. Wayland. If there is wetland on your property and you ex- 

 cavate it, you would most likely get a notification from one of the 

 Federal agencies indicating that a permit is required for that activ- 

 ity. It may be that an after-the-fact permit could be issued, but 

 there would be some hope and expectation that having avoided the 

 permitting process in the first instance, that you would restore 

 that area to its wetlands functions or obtain a permit for the activi- 

 ties. 



Mr. Taylor. It is a violation of law for me to excavate without a 

 permit, isn't it? 



Mr. Wayland. Yes. 



Mr. Taylor. And the penalty for violating that law is? 



Mr. Wayland. The penalties provided in the Clean Water Act for 

 a whole series of violations are up to $25,000 a day. However, those 

 penalties are rarely invoked. 



Mr. Taylor. How about jail sentences or that sort of thing? 



Mr. Wayland. Jail sentences are possible only if there is a will- 

 ful or knowing violation. In other words, if you had ascertained 

 that these were wetlands and that you could not manipulate them 

 without a permit and you elected to anyway, there is a potential 

 criminal liability. 



