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sources Defense Council for their excellent report, which has once 

 again been very, very helpful. 



As I indicated in my statement, I am very, very disappointed 

 with the Environmental Protection Agency and NOAA. I fight for 

 your budgets all the time, and I am disappointed. What you have 

 basically said, is that the goals are worthy and we would like to see 

 this happen, but we think we can do it on our own. Well, you have 

 been saying that for five years, and I have listened to it for five 

 years, and we are not that much further ahead than we were 

 before. 



Negotiated rulemaking is just that. You know that it is the latest 

 bureaucratic response to legislation. I would venture to say that we 

 wouldn't be here today if it weren't for H.R. 31 and the predeces- 

 sors of H.R. 31 and our continuing efforts to focus attention upon a 

 problem. 



Now, look, I understand what is meant by negotiated rulemak- 

 ing, and it is subject to resources and other program priorities. 

 What you basically have said to us once again is that we think it is 

 important, and, yes, we are going to get to it. Well, that is not good 

 enough, because I think that our children and the bathing public 

 deserve better than that. 



Now, we haven't had a very good track record in getting the 

 States on board voluntarily, have we? I have to assume that the 

 enterococci standard that you have developed is the best standard. 

 We have, what, eight on board? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Right. 



Mr. Hughes. Eight out of how many States? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Eight out of 50 States plus territories, Indian 

 tribes. 



Mr. Hughes. Well, I presumed that the standard was for coastal 

 waters and not all the States have coastal areas. 



Ms. Stasikowski. No. This is a standard that applies nationwide, 

 for all of the waters. 



Mr. Hughes. Well, is it the best scientific standard that we have 

 right now? Is it the best that science can provide for us? 



Ms. Stasikowski. It is the best standard with the present state of 

 knowledge, yes. 



Mr. Hughes. Would you agree that we need to do more to see if 

 we can improve upon that standard? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Absolutely. 



Mr. Hughes. Yes. So you support that? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Yes. 



Mr. Hughes. You support that provision of the bill? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Right. ^ 



Mr. Hughes. Do you support the concept that it shouldn t make 

 any difference where you bathe, whether it is in New Jersey or 

 California or the Gulf of Mexico, that the waters are either swim- 

 mable or they are not? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Yes, correct. 



Mr. Hughes. Would you agree that the bill has an escape clause 

 that says if States can show that they can conduct the program 

 and assure public safety, then they can opt out with the blessing of 

 the administrator? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Yes. 



