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heard witnesses from other States already refer to the Adopt-A- 

 Beach program that you implemented and have given great leader- 

 ship, and I appreciate it since I represent the longer stretch of 

 Texas coastline — even though my Chairman represents a portion 

 between us — about three-fourths of the Texas coastline. 



Which brings the point, Commissioner John Hall in his letter 

 points out that this legislation does not address the bayside shore- 

 line in our States and points out that in Texas we have in excess of 

 2,200 miles of bayside shoreline. 



From your viewpoint, Commissioner, is there a need for this leg- 

 islation to address the bay side of the shoreline for these problems, 

 or is it just one that the bill ought to address the ocean side, which 

 perhaps is why so many people from New Jersey have been cospon- 

 sors of this bill? 



Mr. Mauro. Congressman, thank you for those nice words. I 

 don't think there is any doubt. I think one of the other testifiers 

 suggested that we cover estuary areas, and I am convinced that we 

 ought to do that as well. 



I think Chairman Hall of our Water Commission was absolutely 

 right. Water quality is water quality; and there are lots of bays 

 that are used for recreational activities, and they probably need to 

 have the same standards as coastal areas have. 



Mr. Laughlin. Commissioner, would it help some of the concerns 

 that you have expressed if States were allowed to participate in the 

 development of monitoring programs for the States' respective 

 beaches? 



Mr. Mauro. Well, Congressman, keeping in mind the previous 

 exchange, the hammer concept. We like it in Texas, where we give 

 the local people, the State, so many months, so many years to come 

 up with their own plan rather than have an edict on high handed 

 down. You have got to balance that, of course, with having some 

 minimum common standards. 



But we would like to see a regional or State approach that is 

 grassroots driven be encouraged. I would have to agree with Con- 

 gressman Hughes that the current language on its face appears 

 sufficient to allow flexibility, but I think for those of us who have 

 had experience dealing with bureaucracies in the last 10 years, 15 

 years, you have to do more than allow for the flexibility. 



Sometimes you need to build it into the law; and I would like to 

 see that expanded so that there is more requirement to demand 

 grassroots, local. State participation so that we get truly diverse 

 programs that, in effect, hit the common goal of healthful beaches 

 and bay waters for everybody. 



Mr. Laughlin. Ms. Stasikowski, do you know if the EPA has any 

 plans to consult or to advise or in any way coordinate these pro- 

 grams with the various States? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Yes, when I discussed negotiated rulemaking, 

 as the Commissioner was discussing, the purpose is to involve the 

 grassroots-level organization, the States, local groups — Dr. Schaub, 

 how many States and local organizations have been involved in the 

 first phase of the rulemaking? 



Mr. Schaub. There are eight States involved and several county 

 associations involved to help — associations involved in the prelimi- 

 nary stages of this negotiation. However, one of the problems we 



