33 



are finding right now is getting true representation among the 

 States and the county associations so we can have a pool of people 

 that would be more represented as a whole, people who would be 

 involved, have to live with the consequences. 



Mr. Laughlin. When I read this bill, it says that monitoring re- 

 quirements established pursuant to this bill at a minimum will 

 specify the frequency of monitoring based on periods of recreation- 

 al use of the involved waters. I don't know how you can do this if 

 you don't have the States involved or the local governments — local 

 organizations involved in implementing this requirement. 



Ms. Stasikowski. That is absolutely necessary. 



Mr. Laughlin. Now, I was somewhat impressed when either Sen- 

 ator Lautenberg or Chairman Hughes talked about the number of 

 people per square mile in New Jersey. I can think of one spot in 

 my district 70 miles long where there are no people on the beach 

 ever, and it occurs to me that what may be good in New Jersey for 

 good water may be too costly for the people in Matagorda and Cal- 

 houn Counties that I represent to go out there and test when 

 nobody is going to be out there; and that is what concerns me. 



Mr. Hughes. Will the gentleman yield to me on that? 



Mr. Laughlin. Yes. 



Mr. Hughes. That is why the bill is written as it is. If you have 

 areas that have no people using the beaches, there is no need for 

 monitoring. 



Mr. Laughlin. The bill doesn't say that, and I do appreciate 

 your observation on that, but my concern, Mr. Hughes, is you are 

 not going to be the one down there telling the county commission- 

 ers and the commissioners court in Calhoun and Matagorda Coun- 

 ties that they don't have to spend money to test the water where 

 there are no people. You see — but these are the people that are sit- 

 ting at the council table that are going to be implementing this, 

 and if they are not going to take that into consideration, then your 

 bill doesn't do my people any good in those counties. 



Now, I have got some counties where there are a lot of people 

 that go to the beach and this should apply. I haven't heard a satis- 

 factory answer that you are going to — as you try to implement 

 rules or something along with this bill, that you are going to have 

 local input. 



Ms. Stasikowski. Well, the purpose of negotiated rulemaking 

 was to work with the local groups, the State groups, and to develop 

 the kind of standard that would allow flexibility to the States. One 

 of the reasons that we are concerned about a single numerical 

 standard is that it would not account for differences in the frequen- 

 cy of the use of the beach, differences in temperature, etc. and we 

 need to allow for that flexibility. 

 Mr. Laughlin. And that is your intention? 



Ms. Stasikowski. Yes. Whether it be in a standard development 

 in the negotiated rulemaking or whether it be in implementing the 

 beach law. 



Mr. Laughlin. Has EPA given any thought to the cost of this 

 testing per mile or per local government or — I don't know how you 

 are going to estimate it, but have you all come up with any figure 

 on what it is going to cost to do this testing? 



