42 



tional nonlisted stocks to become listed if we could take some pre- 

 ventative measure. v tt i. 



I am still anticipating that the expenditure levels for the Fish 

 and Wildlife Program will continue to increase by some amount 

 and that we will have some capability to try to step in ahead of 

 time and address potential listings, whether they are bull trout or 

 Kootenai sturgeon or whatever. Clearly if we can take a preventa- 

 tive measure early on, it almost invariably is less costly than if we 

 get into a listing situation. None of the budget numbers con- 

 template additional costs that might come about as a result of ad- 

 ditional Ustings. We have tried to preserve some capability to deal 

 with those, and we will try to give priority, in terms of how we re- 

 duce our fish and wildlife budget, to Hsted stocks or potentially Ust- 

 ed stocks to avoid that kind of result. 



Mr. LaRocco. With regard to the reserves that you have had, I 

 don't have a historical perspective on that. Can you help me out 

 in understanding the amount of reserves that you have normally 

 had at BPA over the past decade or so, and were those reserves put 

 aside to take care of situations like these, or do you normally 



Mr. Hardy. Well, over the past decade our reserves have typi- 

 cally varied from almost to the high of $900 million that we had 

 about 18 months ago. Our desired level of reserves to maintain the 

 95 percent probability of repaying Treasury as well as execute all 

 of our other program requirements are probably in the $400-$500 

 million level. Part of what is driving the current rate increase is 

 to try to rebuild our reserves. We calculate our reserves will now 

 be down to $90 milUon, at the end of this fiscal year. We want to 

 rebuild our reserves to the $400-$500 million over the 2-year rate 

 period so we have an ability to withstand at least one bad water 

 year and still not gut our programs. 



Mr. LaRocco [presiding]. Okay. The task force stands in recess 

 until we see Mr. DeFazio or Mr. Williams, and I will go vote. 



Thank you. 



Mr. Hardy. Thank you. Congressman. 



fRecess.l 



Mr. DeFazio [presiding]. We are back in session, and I would 

 defer to the gentleman from Washington State, if he has some 

 questions, for five minutes. 



Mr. Kreidler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



The first question I have, Mr. Hardy, deals with how much of the 

 current financial crisis is brought on by some of the problems that 

 Bonneville has had with its contractors. It is my understanding 

 that some of these contractors consider the money that Bonneville 

 provides them with as more or less an entitlement and that they 

 have not been very responsive when asked to account for the 

 money that they have spent. It may be that some of Bonneville^s 

 fish and wildlife and/or conservation money could be more effi- 

 ciently spent either by different contractors or by changes in the 

 present contractors' methods. 



What are your thoughts on that issue? ^ . ■, • • 



Mr. Hardy. I would say some of that is true. I don't think it is 

 a first order problem, but it probably is a second-order kind of 

 problem. One of the things that we are seeking to do as we go m 

 and look at reducing our programs is try to both cut out some of 



