46 



cause there is a significant amount of savings that is available if 

 we do this thing right. 



Mr. DeFazio. I appreciate that. 



You answered my colleague from Washington on the question 

 about contractors, and I asked some questions in the preliminary 

 interrogatories about personnel and contractors, and I would like 

 to spend a little time examining that. I can't say that I am fully 

 able to decipher the chart that was provided, which I have here, 

 in terms of the total staffing. 



[Editor's note, — See "Questions and Answers Supplement to the 

 Statement of Randall W. Hard/' in the Appendix.] 



Mr. DeFazio. When I look at page 9 and your responses to the 

 questions I submitted on April 7 and the categories — let's just use 

 1993 because it is on the chart, and we could use any of the years. 

 Federal employees, as you stated, 3,667; I understand that. Then 

 we go to contractors and cooperating agencies. There is a support 

 services contractor staffing levels breakdown, but it seems to me 

 there is a substantial portion where we don't have a breakdown be- 

 tween what are cooperating agencies and what are contractors. 



Going back to the question about WPPSS, this doesn't include 

 the WPPSS FTEs. They are not considered a coordinating or co- 

 operating agency, are they? 



Mr. Hardy. This is page 9, Mr. Chairman? 



Mr. DeFazio. Yes. 



Mr. Hardy. You are right, these do not includethe Supply Sys- 

 tem, the Corps or the Bureau. These include principally contractors 

 that we have for basic support services in those respective areas. 



Mr. DeFazio. It is puzzling me. So this does not include the 

 Corps or Bureau. 



Mr. Hardy. That is right. Your chart on page 8 includes all of 

 the Corps. If you count the portion of Corps and Bureau employees 

 that we finance, that is under the hydro generation and construc- 

 tion line on page 8. So the 1,630 number is mainly Corps and Bu- 

 reau employees whom we pay for. The nuclear generation line on 

 page 8 is basically all the Supply System activities that we pay for. 

 The fish and wildlife line is basically all the fish and wildlife staff- 

 ing that we pay for. So those are all contractors in a technical 

 sense of that term. 



I would say a more relevant chart for purposes of contractors 

 that we use on a pretty much full-time basis to do tasks that other- 

 wise we would use Bonneville permanent employees to do is what 

 is on page 9, which are support services contractors. 



Mr. DeFazio. Okay. So the estimates of support services contrac- 

 tor staffing levels are semi-permanent or more regularly occurring. 



Mr. Hardy. Yes. 



Mr. DeFazio. So we would add that to the BPA number. 



Mr. Hardy. That is right. 



Mr. DeFazio. And then the rest are other. 



Mr. Hardy. That is correct. 



Mr. DeFazio. As you would say, the nuclear generation number 

 in there is for WPPSS or the Supply System, and fish and wildlife 

 involves cooperative agreements with the State fish and wildlife 

 agencies, such as for the program for predators and things like 

 that. 



