66 



which is to say that at any and all costs, not wasting money or 

 anything else, but we have to avoid getting into a situation where 

 our federal system is being run out of the courts. 



It is just not desirable for anybody to get to that point in time, 

 and if there are certain measures that some may even find objec- 

 tionable in a difficult budget year, we have got to remember that, 

 you know, fish, according to the Northwest Power Act, are not nice 

 to have, they are something we have to have and we have to at- 

 tempt to perpetuate. We really need to avoid in any areas of the 

 budget untoward cost cutting. You know, in the case of the Forest 

 Service, they did some things under the direction of John Crowell 

 that the industry applauded greatly at the time and thought, "Boy, 

 this is great, we are going to get more timber harvest." Well, it 

 turns out, in fact, they began the long downward spiral to catas- 

 trophe and virtually no timber harvest or sale program and very 

 little timber harvest because of what people thought was very ben- 

 eficial to them at the beginning. 



So I realize you have customer pressures, and I think, from the 

 hearing, that you have expressed some things that I am very sup- 

 portive of in terms of taking some tough looks at basically every- 

 thing and putting everything on the table. I really applaud you and 

 support that. I realize that you are under a multitude of pressures 

 out there, but we have got to keep the long-term view in mind, too, 

 as we make some of these short-term decisions. Maybe we are not 

 going to be comfortable with it, but on the other hand, if it is a 

 choice between an essential program that is going to avoid future 

 huge costs, those are judgment calls you will have to make. 



But I just want to applaud what I see as your willingness to con- 

 sider anything and eve^hing and let you know that I will support 

 you in those efforts and continue to push you on a number of those 

 points I raised. 



I think you got the points about WPPSS and the contractors and 

 some of the other things I raised. I think those are stones to be 

 turned over in addition to some of these other things you are al- 

 ready doing, and I appreciate your willingness to be here and share 

 so much of your time, your opinions, and be open with your re- 

 sponses. I hope that your customers appreciate it too because I 

 think you are representing them well. 



So thank you very much. I appreciate it. 



Do you have any closing comments? 



Mr. Hardy. I guess I would like to say two things, Mr. Chair- 

 man. One is, I appreciate, as I have expressed to you before, your 

 chairing this task force and convening these series of oversight 

 hearings. It helps to have someone, both you and the other task 

 force members, taking a comprehensive look at what we do and the 

 trade-offs we have to make. 



I must say, what I suffer fi-om most in this job is people coming 

 in selectively on this issue or that issue and then they disappear 

 for the 99 percent of the rest of the issues that I have to deal with. 

 Taking a comprehensive look is very helpful to let us know wheth- 

 er, in your judgment, I am making the right judgments or we are 

 msiking the right judgments about these trade-offs between the size 

 of the rate increase and funding essential programs. 



