129 



of conservation as a resource. But I don't think we should let one 

 difference between conservation and generation cause this group to 

 leave thinking that that's not the way that it's treated at Bonne- 

 ville. 

 Mr. DeFazio. Anybody else? Angus? 



Mr. Duncan. Two quick points. One is that with my comments 

 on how we have to move to acquire conservation I do not intend 

 to lay that load entirely on Bonneville. That is a shared respon- 

 sibility. And, certainly, there are any number of utilities out there 

 who haven't figured out how to carry their share of the risks along 

 with their share of the reward for making these kinds of conserva- 

 tion investments and undertaking to acquire these resources and 

 sell them to Bonneville. 



That is a mixed responsibility, and I think the Council also has 

 a share in trying to make it clear that the intent is for the utilities, 

 the other suppliers of conservation, and Bonneville collectively to 

 move in the direction of treating conservation not just as a re- 

 source, but as a resource not at a disadvantage to the way supply 

 side resources are acquired. 



Last comment. I can't resist observing. Congressman Smith, that 

 I don't regard conservation as a social agenda any more, I think, 

 than Bonneville does. It is a resource. And I think, further, that 

 we ought to be clear that the agenda of protecting fish is not a so- 

 cial agenda either so much as it is dealing with the environmental 

 consequences of a generating resource. 



Just Uke we deal with the pollutants that come out of the smoke- 

 stack, managing those is part of the cost of acquiring electricity 

 from that thermal generating plant, and recovering the fish runs 

 is part of the cost of generating electricity from dams. 



Mr. Smith of Oregon. Thank you very much. Professor. 



Mr. DeFazio. Anyone else? 



[No response.] 



Mr. DeFazio. I want to thank the panel very much. It was a long 

 panel. I thank you for your patience. I expect the other panels may 

 move along a big more quickly. What I'd like to do is of talk about 

 the schedule for a moment. My watch says it's 6 minutes of 12:00. 

 We're going to take a short break till 12:00. At 12:00, we'll bring 

 up the next panel. 



Just so people can plan their day, let's say from 1:30 until 2:00, 

 we'll be on lunch break, so you can plan your day. Otherwise, we're 

 just going to go pretty much straight through, with the exception 

 of these occasional 5-minute breaks. 



So we're going to convene precisely at 12:00, by my watch, which 

 is 5 minutes from now, with the second panel. 



[Recess.] 



