193 



ing forward to what we might hear in the next hearing, thoughts 

 people have on this idea, to bring into account all these things, past 

 efforts, growth versus non-growth and other concerns. 



Staff was making a reflection on Mr. Cavanagh's testimony and 

 also upon some of the earlier statements and other statements 

 made by BPA that we're moving toward tiered rates, hopefully, 

 definitely. There is some assumption that if we're moving toward 

 tiered rates, that we can abandon trying to make some of these 

 other programs that have been a bit problematic work in the in- 

 terim or even in the longer term; that is, billing credits or other 

 things. 



Mr. Cavanagh. Let me instantly disassociate myself from any 

 such conclusions. Tiered rates, even when we get them, won't be 

 a panacea. They won't remove, in my judgment, the need for re- 

 gional energy efficiency acquisition. In the interim, and it may be 

 a substantial one, as the problems you've laid out get settled, we're 

 going to need direct acquisition mechanisms. 



I think we can find mechanisms that do not share what from the 

 utility's perspective are the unacceptable risk consequences of neg- 

 ative billing credits. As. Dick Watson of the Power Council likes to 

 point out, Bonneville, in the Regional Act, was recreated, in part, 

 as a risk aggregation mechanism to remove those kinds of burdens 

 fi*om individu£d utilities and spread those risks across the region. 



Bonneville has direct investment methods available to it that cer- 

 tainly will not require that particular feature. We're going to need 

 all of those mechanisms abimdantly deployed over just the next 

 several years, because, again, it's important to remember we're also 

 used to this surplus mentality. 



We are now in the deficit that the Regional Act sponsors and cre- 

 ators anticipated. We're several hundred average megawatts deep 

 in it, getting deeper all the time, and the price of screwing up is 

 big checks to California and Canadian utilities. That really does 

 concentrate the mind rather nicely. 



Mr. DeFazio. Does anyone else on the panel have anything they 

 feel they should enlighten us with? 



[No response.] 



Mr. DeFazio. If not, thank you very much. Thank you for being 

 so patient. It took so long to get to this panel. We'll move on to the 

 next panel, where we have five folks. So probably we'll only get 

 three presentations, but we'll see how quickly it moves. 



Panel three, come forward. If there's anyone on this panel who 

 intends to sit through this entire £trduous process all day long and 

 they could volunteer to change places with Mr. Wilkerson, who is 

 on panel five, who has a plane to catch earUer, I'd appreciate it. 

 Is there anybody who could volunteer in such a manner? We'll get 

 you a special rate fi*om BPA in the next — ^no one volunteered. 

 Okay. No specisd rates. 



Well, we'll squeeze Mr. Wilkerson on too. If we get you right up 

 afl;er lunch, Mr. Wilkerson, wherever you are, will that meet your 

 needs? 



Mr. Wilkerson. Yes. 



