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Mr. ESTEVES. No. 



Mr. DeFazio. Because you're taking the risk. 



Mr. ESTEVES. No. The price of our proposal is valued by Bonne- 

 ville Power analysts at 26 mills per kilowatt hour. Bonneville's own 

 programs are valued by SRC and by DOE at about 80 mills per kil- 

 owatt hours. 



Mr. DeFazio. I'm interested in that. I'm also interested in your 

 comments about the deterioration of the applications by BPA. 

 Maybe you could expand on both of those. Why do their applica- 

 tions tend to deteriorate so quickly? I was a S.U.B customer. I had 

 weatherization done in the early 1980s. The idea was that anything 

 that was installed should have a certain life span. Therefore, the 

 savings would last considerably more than a year. 



Mr. EsTEVES, Some of the savings are lasting more than a year. 

 Unfortunately, not all of them do. I can't tell you why their pro- 

 grams have deteriorated as they have. All I can tell you is that 

 when the savings were measured by Oak Ridge, with Bonneville's 

 help and with their host utility's help, the savings dropped. 



Mr. DeFazio. Were they initially overestimated, do you think? 



Mr. ESTEVES. No. They 



Mr. DeFazio. They were measurable at one point and then 



Mr. EsTEVES. Right. 



Mr. DeFazio [continuing]. There was a measurable deterioration 

 in the same measured structure. 



Mr. ESTEVES. Exactly. 



Mr. DeFazio. With no major change in occupancy, use or any- 

 thing else. 



Mr. Esteves. Correct. That was adjusted for. This happens. You 

 may have any number of things that will happen in terms of dete- 

 rioration of the savings. You may have people saying that, well, I 

 don't have to be as careful as I once was because I've got that 

 taken care of. 



You need to have someone that's involved on a continuing basis 

 with that resource to make sure it's there. Certainly, someone who 

 is involved in the commercial and industrial project over ten years 

 goes back to make sure the maintenance is taken care of and ev- 

 erjrthing else. 



You don't expect to send a wind farm out there and let it stay 

 there and assvune it's going to operate perfectly for the next ten 

 years. 



Mr. DeFazio. So in your case, the treatment that you apply, you 

 haven't experienced this deterioration. 



Mr. Esteves. We have experienced deterioration from one year 

 to another. 



Mr. DeFazio. How does it compare to their deterioration? 



Mr. Esteves. We go back and fix it. We replace the kilowatt 

 hours. We're paid each year depending upon what it is. The record 

 that we have is that in three of the four projects for which we have 

 more than one year's worth of data, the savings in year three were 

 higher than the savings in year one in three of those four. 



Mr. DeFazio. So you're effectively the energy poUce here. You do 

 my treatment sind then you notice that my consumption is up and 

 you're going to come by and check out what I'm doing and make 

 sure I'm not turning up the heat and opening the window. 



