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is finally going to work in this region. I mean we have all the re- 

 gional problems that have ^ways been there, but the Governor's 

 testimony again is saying to us on the oversight task force, this 

 thing is not working very well. But if science drives it, what are 

 we going to do to get that confidence, that peer review that says 

 that other scientists believe what these people are saying? 



Mr. Hardy. Yes, sir. I would suggest this, that ultimately the 

 National Marine Fisheries Service is the driver of the boat, the 

 truck, or whatever. They are the regulatory agency that has the en- 

 forcement power, at least for salmon recovery, under the Endan- 

 gered Species Act. 



Mr. LaRocco. I met somebody fi*om NMFS the other day, I had 

 never met anybody firom NMFS. 



Mr. Hardy. You are about to in the next panel. 



Mr. LaRocco. I know. It was this stealth agency that is driving 

 a lot in our region. [Laughter.] 



Mr. Hardy. They are going to get a lot of visibiUty, I suspect, 

 and ultimately, they will make the call. You asked about what 

 science is good science, bad science, conflicting science. NMFS has 

 named a recovery team of the six best biologists in this region, to 

 address that issue. They are going to release their recommenda- 

 tions in another month or so, I beheve. Hopefully that will form the 

 basis — I hope a definitive basis — for them to take some action. Ulti- 

 mately they are the ones, I think, that will determine what hap- 

 pens for at least the three listed salmon stocks that we have now, 

 and any other Hsted anadromous fish stocks. So given the powers 

 that they have xmder the Endangered Species Act and the enor- 

 mous amount of discretion which the courts and the Act accords 

 them as the regulatory agency in charge, I think you have got an 

 entity that can force those kinds of decisions. There are some prob- 

 lems in meshing that with the Council's process, and within other 

 conflicting ESA Ustings like potential resident fish listings where 

 Fish & Wildlife Service is the agency in charge, but at least for the 

 immediate fiiture for the Snake River stocks, I think how we get 

 to wherever it is we are going, and who makes that decision, is 

 pretty clear. 



Mr. LaRocco. Well Mr. Chairman, there is a red light on, I 

 think that is probably for me. 



Mr. DeFazio. I am going to follow on your line of questioning 

 here, so I will just pick up. 



Mr. LaRocco. Oh, okay, well I yield to you then, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. DeFazio. Thank you. 



I would like to follow up on the gentleman's line of questioning 

 because I think it is essential and I do not think that we have 

 quite gotten there with the Recovery Plan or even NMFS' involve- 

 ment. It seems to me we used to have something under the Water 

 Resources Act called the Northwest River Basins Commission. We 

 have got the Corps of Engineers, and I may ask them about this, 

 out there trjdng to look at 14 possible configurations of the 

 hydrosystem and its operation and all the other impacts on the 

 basin and the salmon. And I do not know whether they are perhaps 

 trying to recreate something that already once existed, which was 

 banished by Ronald Reagan and maybe we should look at some- 

 thing like that perhaps with a modified charge, but we have al- 



