154 



today because we are going to discuss that tomorroWo But that I 

 think plays into all this. I think there is a carrot-and-stick ap- 

 proach that can be used to encourage more conservative practices 

 which will have a multiplicity 



Mr. Hardy. And I would agree that you need both carrots and 

 sticks to make this happen. 



Mr. DeFazio. Okay, Do either of you feel there is anything we 

 forgot to ask you? Any hardballs that we did not throw that you 

 would like to 



Mr. Grace. I do not think so. 



Mr. DeFazio. Okay. [Laughter.] 



Okay. Well with that then, I will thank the panel and move on 

 to the next panel. Thank you very much. 



PANEL CONSISTING OF MAJ. GEN. ERNEST J. HARRELL, COM- 

 MANDER, NORTH PACIFIC REGION, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF EN- 

 GINEERS; J. GARY SMITH, OPERATIONS DIRECTOR, NORTH- 

 WEST REGION, NATIONAL MARINE FISHERIES SERVICE, NA- 

 TIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION; 

 AND ANTHONY VAN PELT, MEMBER, UMATILLA TRIBE FISH 

 AND WILDLIFE COMMITTEE AND COLUMBIA RIVER INTER- 

 TRIBAL FISH COMMISSION, ACCOMPANIED BY ROB 

 LOTHROP 



Mr. DeFazio. I want to welcome the next panel and we have got 

 General Harrell from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Regional 

 Office; we have Gary Smith, Operations Director of NMFS — ^there 

 is the NMFS person right there by the name of Smith; and Tony 

 Van Pelt is here and is accompanied by 



Mr. Van Pelt. Mr. Rob Lothrop. 



Mr. DeFazio. Okay, Rob Lothrop. 



Okay, let us begin. The same rules as before, watch the lights, 

 when it gets to yellow, you have got one minute left. We would ap- 

 preciate it if when you see the yellow Ught come on, even if you 

 have not quite finished your testimony, to sum up. 



So General Harrell, you will be first, 



STATEMENT OF MAJ. GEN. ERNEST HARRELL 



General Harrell. Good, thank you. 



Mr. DeFazio and Mr. LaRocco, I am Major General Ernest Har- 

 rell, Commander of the North Pacific Division, U.S. Army Corps of 

 Engineers. I appreciate the opportunity to present the Army's per- 

 spective on recovery efforts for the Columbia and Snake River 

 salmon stocks. I believe it is very usefiil to participate in a forum 

 such as this, so we can reflect on where we have been, report on 

 progress we have made and consider the sort of questions raised 

 in your letter of invitation. 



With your approval, I will summarize a more complete report, 

 which is provided for the record. And I hope that I am not one of 

 the two who did not provide it earlier. 



Mr. DeFazio. No, General, you are not. Actually I would have 

 been happy if yours had not come in. It weighed about five pounds, 

 but I carried it with me and read it on the plane. 



General Harrell. Thank you. 



Mr. DeFazio. It was quite comprehensive. 



