298 



stitutional structure of accountability that needs to be somehow 

 crs^d in this process. 



Mr. LaRocco. And one final thing, Mr. Chairman, if I may. 



Mr. DeFazio. Fine. 



Mr. LaRocco. What science do you have and what can you share 

 with this task force, this committee, on barging at this time? Some 

 people say if barging was so wonderful, we would not be where we 

 are right now, but some people advocate just continued barging, 

 just keep doing what we are doing, status quo. Status quo does not 

 seem to be working too well. Otherwise, we would not be here. But 

 what do you think? What do yoxir scientists say? 



Mr. Smith. Our scientists conclude that there are benefits to 

 transportation. 



Mr. LaRocco, Okay. 



Mr, Smith, There is disagreement. There is a limited amount of 

 information available. There is some uncertainty around it, but our 

 scientists have concluded that it does provide benefits in the short 

 term. Again, we must emphasize we do not see this as a permanent 

 solution. This is an intenm solution until we can get the fish back 

 in the river, and we certainly would like to see more energy put 

 in that direction, focusing on how we csm build a strategy to get 

 fish in the river rather than spending our time in conflict over 

 whether transportation is good or bad. We have concluded that it 

 is beneficial. 



Mr. LaRocco. General, any thoughts on barging? 



General Harrell. No, my thoughts are very supportive of the 

 thoughts of Mr. Smith. 



Mr. LaRocco. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. DeFazio. Thank you. 



To Mr, Smith, you mentioned concerns about fragmentation in 

 your earlier testimony. If you were Ustening to the earUer panels, 

 you would have heard some discussion of two principles. One, look- 

 ing at reviving perhaps an enhanced basin commission to improve 

 coordination among all appropriate parties, including the tribes 

 and others. And two, the idea of BPA establishing more of a trust 

 fund or lump sum arrangement, and there are some scenarios 

 under which such a lump sum would go to National Marine Fish- 

 eries Service. And I woiild like to know how you feel about that, 

 if you feel you are capable of administering those things. So if you 

 could answer those two questions, 



Mr, Smith. First of all, I think as far as the ultimate institu- 

 tional arrangement, I would agree we need a lot of study and what- 

 ever, but we should look at various alternatives and see what 

 works best for what we are trying to achieve here, and there are 

 some models out there perhaps that can be used to do that. Wheth- 

 er it is the National Marine Fisheries Service or we are a part of 

 it, I think that would have to be determined later. 



Within the ESA context, it is highly likely that the Recovery 

 Plan will be looking at oversight panels for the major activities 

 that go on, so they are coordinated to achieve recovery there. 

 Whether that would provide a model that could be extended, we 

 will have to look at that when we get that option. 



As far as funding the whole mix, any stability that can be 

 brought to getting back to focus on getting the work done and 



