473 



Mr« DeFazio. Thank you, Mr. Wright. 



I guess I would like to hear Mr. Chaney and Mr. Baker specifi- 

 cally address Mr. Lovelin's assertions about the harm caused by 

 drawdowns — ^briefly. 



Mr. Chaney. I think he is making it all up. [Laughter.] 



Mr. DeFazio. I have not followed the record. Perhaps we coxild 

 give Mr. Lovelin a chance to respond too. You know, I cannot tell 

 you, I have enough trouble reading testimony for a hearing like 

 this, let alone following the hearing records and everything that 

 has preceded this. Is there a body of knowledge? 



Mr. Chaney. There is always a plausible basis for the most egre- 

 gious errors or thinking, and yes, the long Ust of possible problem 

 with drawdown include nitrogen supersaturation as a result of ad- 

 ditional spiU. That is probably the only one of import, and I do not 

 know any scientist who has dealt with this who thinks that is an 

 irresolvable problem. It is always a problem, it is not just a prob- 

 lem with drawdown, it is a problem with the projects we have out 

 there right now. 



I am not aware of any fishery scientist that does not work for 

 the opposition that feels that there are any imresolvable problems 

 here associated with the drawdowns. 



Mr. DeFazio. Before I turn to Mr. Baker, perhaps Mr. Lovelin, 

 you heard me ask the National Marine Fisheries person about 

 drawdown and he did not share your view. What group of scientists 

 or body of knowledge or studies are your concerns basically saying 

 the drawdown is totally detrimental based on? 



Mr. Lovelin. Well, let me clarify again my points. I suggested 

 that drawdowns could likely cause additional mortahty to the very 

 salmon that we are trying to enhance. I think the March 1992 test 

 did reveal some concerns relative to drawdown. Again, as Mr. 

 Chaney discussed, the gas supersaturation issue could potentially 

 be resolved. 



The increased predator concentrations, the increased adult salm- 

 on passage mortality could potentially be engineered through. 

 Again, I would refer back to what I think I heard General Harrell 

 say, 14-17 years, $1 biUion to possibly $5 bilUon, depends on if you 

 buy a Chevrolet or a Cadillac. We are talking about a long-term 

 modification, potentially, of these projects — ^it cannot happen to- 

 morrow. 



But the real fundamental problem with drawdowns is, when you 

 draw down the reservoirs, you cannot transport those salmon. De- 

 spite the opponents to transportation, you did hear the National 

 Marine Fisheries Service say that transportation is beneficial to 

 fish. So if you do draw down the reservoirs, you cannot barge those 

 fish — you cannot collect them, you cannot barge them. So you have 

 to make up that loss relative to the transportation program which 

 has been estimated to be fi*om 60 percent to 150 percent improve- 

 ment. 



Mr. DeFazio. Thank you. Just to clarify, and I am sure the Na- 

 tional Marine Fisheries Service would like to respond, but I will re- 

 spond fi-om what I heard them say. 



I heard them say that in their opinion it could augment other 

 more effective programs, and in particular conditions, it could be 

 an asset, and for some species it works better. But they did not say 



