474 



we should design the whole system to put all the fish on barges, 

 if that is what you are tr3mig to say. They did not say that we 

 should not do something that would be, you know, detrimental or 

 as a substitute for barging. They did not make that point, because 

 they were clearly supporting drawdown. 



Mr. Baker, would you respond to Mr. Chaney and Mr. Lovelin? 



Mr. Baker. I tried to follow Bruce's comments point-by-point and 

 get them all down. There were a lot of them and they came very 

 quickly, but let me try. 



Mr. DeFazio. Do it quickly, I have a lot of questions. 



Mr. Baker. Ill try to respond to as many as I got written down. 



It is true that if you went out and you drew down any of these 

 lower Snake pools tomorrow, there would be substantial mortalities 

 to fish because the fish ladders as well as the juvenile bypass 

 equipment was all installed assuming a fiill pool on those res- 

 ervoirs. That is why the Corps of Engineers has been doing its 

 proper work of engineering to see if we cannot modify these dams 

 appropriately. And the Corps, I beUeve, will certify that its designs 

 address the nitrogen supersaturation problem, address the adult 

 passage problem. 



As for predator concentration, I hear this one a lot. The evidence 

 is that the drawdowns would actually help the current predator 

 concentration problem at the base of each of these dams. When we 

 restore a free-flowing river at the base of each of these dams, the 

 squawfish and other predators are going to have to move down- 

 stream or over to the shore, away from the juvenile salmon that 

 are coming out of those dams either over the spillways or through 

 the turbines or through the bypass equipment, stunned, confused 

 and not particularly able to defend themselves. They will get a 

 brief respite in a free-flowing river before they reach predators that 

 have actually been dispersed away from their current concentra- 

 tions. 



Now Bruce references the 14-17 years to do these installations 

 and the $1-5 bilhon, depending upon the design you pick. The 

 Northwest Power Planning Council has contracted Harza Engineer- 

 ing, and Harza's studies so far indicate that the Corps' time line 

 as well as the cost estimated by the Corps are just plain bloated 

 and could be brought down substantially without incurring any 

 risk of failure of either the modifications or of the projects while 

 the modifications are being installed. 



Mr. DeFazio. Okay, thanks. That 



Mr. Baker. If I could just respond to transportation. 



Mr. DeFazio. Very briefly. 



Mr. Baker. In your packet you have a memo from biologists from 

 the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, Washington Department of Fish- 

 eries, Oregon Department of Fish & Wildlife, Idaho Department of 

 Fish & Game, and from the Columbia River Inter-Tribal Fish Com- 

 mission. They concluded, "It is apparent that transportation is not 

 a substitute for provision of good in-river migration conditions for 

 many of the salmon stocks evaluated in the Corps' studies. For 

 some stocks, it appears that transportation may have been det- 

 rimental to fish survival." 



Mr. DeFazio. Thank you. 



