478 



there to collect and transport. And so it cuts off the ends of the 

 wild fish. And fi-ankly, wild animals, we are finding, just do not 

 handle very well in these barges. Notwithstanding the fact Gary 

 Smith said their scientists actually have foimd — and it is dis- 

 puted—that there is some benefit to transportation as compared to 

 killing them £dl at and between the dams, that is a different kind 

 of benefit than most people might imagine. 



But the fact of the matter is, in our discussions with the people 

 at Idaho Fish & Game and talking to people who have been out on 

 the river for years and years in the same places, wild steelhead are 

 in serious and growing trouble in Idaho. 



Mr, LaRocco. Well what impact does that have on the hatchery 

 population then? 



Mr, Chaney, Oh, in time, if we have learned anything, if Darwin 

 was onto something, and I think he probably was, notwithstanding 

 those that want to prove that fish do not need a river, in time what 

 the evidence is showing is that if we do not have a relatively robust 

 diverse wild population of fish to provide brood stock for our hatch- 

 ery operations, over time the productivity of those hatchery popu- 

 lations tends to start the slide down a long, sUppery slope. We are 

 still learning a lot about these fish, we are still learning a lot about 

 hatchery propagation, but that is something that most farmers 

 learned a long time ago and fish do not seem to be an exception 

 to that rule. 



Mr. LaRocco. Well that seems to be new information, quite 

 fi*ankly, Mr. Chaney. With all the focus on salmon, I do not think 

 we talk about steelhead very much. But your concern, after 30 

 years of study and research, is that the wild stocks are in trouble? 



Mr. Chaney. Absolutely, and I think that is going to become in- 

 creasingly evident with the research now that particularly Idaho 

 Fish & Game is doing in the tributary spawning and rearing areas 

 including those pristine areas in the Frank Church Wilderness. 

 The habitat there is seeded at such an extremely low level that it 

 is cause for serious concern. 



Mr. LaRocco. Mr. Lovelin, I believe, correct me if I am wrong, 

 did you say that barging needs to be improved and enhanced. Does 

 that mean that we need to get the fish into Idaho water faster or 

 to the barges faster? Is that part of any enhancement that you 

 think we need, particularly in drought years where, you know, we 

 may not have those flows? 



Mr. LovELE^. When I mentioned enhancements in the transpor- 

 tation program, I think principally the ones I was talking about, 

 the options, are a release strategy and maybe purchasing addi- 

 tional barges so there is less fish density, less stress on the chinook 

 themselves. Maybe the barges are held, taken down closer to the 

 estuary and held there until the fish are kind of acclimated to the 

 conditions and then they are released. 



The point you are making though is an interesting one, that 

 when we did divide the biological benefit by the cost or some meas- 

 ures, we did find that on the positive side in the Northwest Power 

 Planning Council's plan, that tiieir flow measures, it evolved into 

 being one of the more cost-effective measures. And we found the 

 reason for that was because it helps speed the salmon smolt down 

 to the collection facilities and gets them out of the river and pushes 



