479 



them down in barges at that point. So we think that the higher 

 flows in the Snake would help move the fish down to the Lower 

 Granite Dam where they can be collected or collection facilities 

 below that. 



Mr. LaRocco. Are we talking about flow augmentation there? Is 

 that my understanding? 



Mr. LOVELIN. Yes, that is right. I think that is what we are talk- 

 ing about with the Northwest Power Planning Council's plan. 



Mr. LaRocco. Okay. Mr. Godard, maybe I do not understand, 

 but could some of those people who had higher rates, could any of 

 that have been due to WPPS? Do I just misunderstand, none of 

 that went to the rate base, to the ratepayers? 



Mr. Godard. No, why would that be? We do not own WPPS. 



Mr. LaRocco. You do not own WPPS. Anybody in the North- 

 west — the people in your utility district. 



Mr. Godard. We produce our own power supply system projects 

 backed by the Bonneville Power Administration. 



Mr. LaRocco. So you were talking about people who had their 

 higher rates in your testimony, the people who had to mow lawns 

 and so forth. 



Mr. Godard. The higher rates that we are seeing are due to 

 salmon, because of the 10 million acre-feet that is brought down in 

 the spring time instead of the winter time. So we do not have the 

 power available that we otherwise would have had in the winter 

 time to heat homes, and so we have to buy more expensive sources 

 to make up for that, and that is what is pushing our rates up. And 

 you know, we are not saying that people should not pay for salmon, 

 or that flows are not helpful to salmon. I feel a Httle bit 

 mischaracterized here. What we want to bring to this table is the 

 people who were not invited to the hearing, the people that are 

 paying the bills here. And I think what they are asking for is a 

 product. You know, what is the result of this effort. And it is ter- 

 ribly frustrating that after 10 years and a biUion dollars, that the 

 fish are worse off. We do not think that is because flows hurt fish. 

 We did not say that. We just think the flows helped fish and those 

 fish went somewhere, and where they went was into the nets and 

 into the hooks. And that is okay, you know. Fishing is okay; it is 

 just how it is done. It cannot be done in a mixed stock fishery 

 where you get the strong stocks and the weak stocks at the same 

 time. It makes more sense to do the fishing in Idaho and northeast 

 Oregon than it does at Elwaco and Astoria or the Gulf of Alaska. 



We are just trying to raise that that is another element of this 

 problem. We have done a lot, 10 milhon acre-feet, people are pay- 

 ing for that. The fish are not better off so there is more that we 

 have to do. 



Mr. LaRocco. Okay. 



Mr. DeFazio. Well I am glad to hear that because in reading 

 your testimony and in hearing the testimony, I think then maybe 

 I misperceived it, that you do in fact think that the flows have been 

 helpful. But the problem is, to the extent they have been helpfiil, 

 it has been offset by other concerns, particularly harvest, in your 

 mind. I am pleased to hear that, because I did not read the testi- 

 mony that way, nor Mr. Lovelin's comments that way. 



