482 



Mr. LOVELIN. And we are equally as concerned if you remove the 

 transport system and leave the fish in the river, because we know 

 if you do that, you are going to have fewer runs come back in the 

 future. That is why we think a focus ought to be on improving 

 transportation, whether it be interim or not, we will allow that. 

 But again, measures can be put in place in the near term, within 

 this next year, not 10 years down the road. 



Mr. LaRocco. Okay. And Mr. Chaney, what do you think the ju- 

 venile mortality is on the dams? 



Mr. Chaney. I basically agree with the general range of numbers 

 that National Marine Fisheries Services and most of the region's 

 fishery agencies use. They generally convert those into a percent of 

 man-caused mortality, which are the numbers that were reflected 

 here. But I guess that depends on the year. But I think as a rule 

 of thumb, they are basically using about 15 percent per project be- 

 cause, you know, in high flow years it is less and low flow vears 

 it is more. And then you throw in the compUcation of not being 

 able to do more than scientifically wild-ass guess about delayed 

 mortality of fish, so 15 percent per project seems to be the best 

 working number. 



Mr. LaRocco. And where does the 90 percent come in? What am 

 I not 



Mr. Chaney. Well, you are getting the cumulative effect. When 

 you do 15 percent and then 15 percent of what is left and 15 per- 

 cent of what is left and 15 percent of what is left and then you ad- 

 just for delayed morality of hauled fish, you are not getting nec- 

 essarily 90 percent of the toted nimiber of juveniles that started 

 downstream. 



Mr. LaRocco. Because Mr. Lovelin's point is correct then, if 

 barging some down past the projects? 



Mr. Chaney. I have lost you there. 



Mr. LaRocco. Well he made the point that you are not losing 

 them at the collection point because 



Mr. Chaney. You are losing them after you dump them out of 

 the barges. 



Mr. LaRocco. Right, and so that is not due to going through the 

 dam system then? 



Mr. Chaney. No, but that is included in the calculations of mor- 

 tahties related to operation of the projects. 



Mr. LaRocco. Okay, and anybody looking at that statistic might 

 think that that is as they come into the pools and move down to 

 the dams, is that right, Mr. Lovelin? 



Mr. Lovelin, That is what we beUeve that number is based on — 

 salmon smolt that remain in the system and are not transported 

 around. 



Mr. LaRocco. That remain in the system. Would you agree with 

 that? 



Mr. Chaney. No, I think all of the calculations that I have seen 

 in use factor in an estimated delayed mortahty to those fish that 

 are barged through the system. I mean there is an attempt to ac- 

 count for an obvious delayed mortahty in those juveniles that are 

 hauled. 



Mr. LaRocco. Through stress? 



Mr. Chaney. Yes, due to stress in handling. 



