588 



do not like them. I mean that is essentially what you are saying. 

 What you are putting forward here is almost like a plot. 



Mr. Stegner. Well, I will restate that I think that is a percep- 

 tion in my area. 



Mr. DeFazio. It is a perception, but I do not think it is a reality. 



Mr. Stegner. Well, no one is going to a whole lot of trouble to 

 dispel it. 



Now let me make a point please, if you will. I woxild like to go 

 back to a statement that I think you have reUed on throughout tMs 

 hearing, that I believe Mr. Smith made, from National Marine 

 Fisheries Service. When asked a question of whether or not his 

 agency supported funding for drawdowns, he responded in the af- 

 firmative that yes, they did. Is that correct — am I correct in that? 



Mr. DeFazio. I do not know, if Mr. Smith is here, we could ask 

 him. 



Mr. Stegner. Well, I do not mean to put words in his mouth, but 

 I do not think that was an attempt by the National Marine Fish- 

 eries Service to take drawdowns of the lower Snake River as the 

 primary focus of the recovery plan. I think that you would have 

 been better served to have these hearings after NMFS files that 

 plan, because an awful lot of what has been going on here and 

 talked about has been biology. And a month from now we will have 

 that recovery plan, and we could talk specific points. So we have 

 to make some speculation as to what they are going to say. 



I hope they say drawdowns are biologically flawed and there are 

 cheaper, better ways to do it, and we are not going to put any effort 

 in that. Now that is not what some of the other people would have 

 them say, but that is what I would like them to say. I do not think 

 they are going to say that, because they are not going to deviate 

 that much from the Power Planning Council plan. 



But I would like them to say that. They are not going to say that. 

 I do not think that anything he said today should be construed that 

 drawdowns are the main focus for the recovery plan, or necessarily 

 will be in the fiiture. 



Mr. DeFazio. Well, my recollection of the exchange was it was 

 where one of the earUer witnesses living in denial said that 

 drawdowns kill fish, and I said "Mr. Smith, is it the opinion of 

 NMFS that drawdowns kill fish, and we should not be doing 

 drawdowns," and he said no. And we did not get into a discussion 

 of drawdowns in your area versus drawdowns elsewhere. I mean it 

 was a more general discussion of drawdowns. 



Mr. Stegner. Well, we will see. 



Mr. DeFazio. We will certainly see the recovery plan. 



Mr. Stegner. That is right. 



Mr. DeFazio. I thank you. 



Mr. LaRocco, I have tsOten more than my time. 



Mr. LaRocco. Well, thank you. 



Mr. Chairman, I think Joe is right though; I think there is a per- 

 ception. I mean he is not misstating that one way or the other, in 

 any way, shape or form. I mean that is the northern part of my 

 district and Joe and I have sat together, I put together a salmon 

 recovery working group and ever since this problem has emerged, 

 I think that there has been a perception there and these are hard 



