97 



But I don't think the details of it would be a big surprise to any- 

 one, and I think that you could have a real negotiation that com- 

 mences relatively soon to get moving on that. 



The second thing I want to emphasize is the least-cost plan idea. 

 One of the things you see when you talk to Bonneville is that it 

 is now talking about becoming more efficient as a utility and as a 

 supplier of services, but Bonneville needs to integrate fish into 

 those decisions. When it is deciding what is a good or more efficient 

 way to do things for power, it should add an overlay of what does 

 that do for fish, and are there incentives that could be provided 

 here that will minimize the cost of our meeting our fishery obliga- 

 tions. 



And this relates to rate structures, issues like seasonality of 

 rates, it relates to how services are provided and what services are 

 provided and when they are provided, and it relates to such things 

 as what Bonneville obligates itself to do in planning under the Pa- 

 cific Northwest Coordination Agreement. 



So there are efficiencies for fish to be captured as well as these 

 debates go forward. And that conceptually seems to be a very dif- 

 ficult idea for Bonneville staff to grapple with. 



I have and others have had no end of meetings where the con- 

 servation community discussed this, and it basically seems to be a 

 very difficult concept for Bonneville to come to grips with. I also 

 think that if Bonneville sat down and put its mind to it, that would 

 not take a very long time to do. 



Mr. DeFazio. You are more confident than I that we have 

 reached some point on fish flow, fish passage, where we could have 

 a structured negotiation. 



Ms. BODI. I think it is a matter of Bonneville stepping out and 

 exercising some leadership here. I think that the recovery team 

 was faced with the same controversy that we see in the courts right 

 now. And it more or less threw up its hands. 



Mr. DeFazio. You mean you are saying they engaged in some- 

 thing political and it wasn't pure science? 



Ms. BODI. I 



Mr. DeFazio. A recovery team would do something like that, sci- 

 entists who engage in politics? 



Ms. BODI. Wonders never cease, Mr, Chairman. 



Mr. DeFazio. I thought science was immutable. 



Ms. BODI. I did too when I first got into the fish business, but 

 I have learned otherwise. 



Mr. DeFazio. One other quick question. You talked about the Pa- 

 cific Northwest Coordination Agreement. Are all the tools in place 

 to have basin-wide planning? 



I have raised some discussion of the Northwest River Basins 

 Commission, which Ronald Reagan saw fit to eliminate as unneces- 

 sary and superfluous. Do you see some need for some overall forum 

 for discussion and coordination, or do you think the tools we have 

 now are adequate? 



Ms. BODI. No, I think we need to look at changes in how the co- 

 ordination agreement operates. And the changes I see that are nec- 

 essary involve not only who gets to participate, but also how the 

 agreement is structured. 



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