16 



Mr. DeGeorge. I do not think so. I think the regulation is trying 

 to be much more precise and say that only when you and a small 

 number of people would benefit from a particular action that could 

 be materially beneficial to that person. 



Ms. Unsoeld. I recognize that my time is up, Mr. Chairman, but 

 I would like to include in the record the Marine Fish Conservation 

 Network which represents 73 environmental groups and their com- 

 ment on the potential conflict of interest issue. 



Mr. Manton. Without objection, so moved. The chair recognizes 

 Mr. Kingston. 



Mr. Kingston. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. DeGeorge, I just 

 have a couple of questions, and I know you can have long answers 

 or short answers. I will let you be the judge. 



In the situation where a commercial fisherman representative 

 votes to raise the total allowable catch, would that alone constitute 

 a conflict of interest? 



Mr. DeGeorge. Not in my judgment, no, sir. 



Mr. Kingston. If he voted to lower the allowable catch. 



Mr. DeGeorge. Either way. 



Mr. Kingston. Either way. Is there any case that a commercial 

 fisher representative could cast a vote on a Council which is not 

 a conflict with his own personal interests? 



Mr. DeGeorge. Well, I could imagine he could become a states- 

 man and vote to push the allocation in a way that was not in his 

 best interest. But a lot of votes that are taken may benefit him and 

 his company, yes. 



Mr. Kingston. When you say he could become a statesman, is 

 it inherent that they are automatically not a statesman? 



Mr. DeGeorge. No, I think 



Mr. Kingston. I just wanted to ask that. 



Mr. DeGeorge. I will accept your definition. 



Mr. Kingston. Is there any case in which a member of the Coun- 

 cil from the recreational fishing community could have a conflict of 

 interest? 



Mr. DeGeorge. A member of the Council? 



Mr. Kingston. Yes, representing the recreational community. 



Mr. DeGeorge. I guess if the discussion was that nobody could 

 take any more commercial fishing. But, no, I cannot conceive of it, 

 no, not off the top of my head. 



Mr. Kingston. How about someone from the environmental com- 

 munity? 



Mr. DeGeorge. I would not think so. 



Mr. Kingston. So commercial fishermen would be the only group 

 in your estimation that could have a conflict? 



Mr. DeGeorge. Well, I would take an individual set of cir- 

 cumstances and review each case, sir, but I think you have to look 

 to where the investments are and where the jobs are and then 

 whether or not the decision moved that in one direction or another. 



I would think that the primary people who could conceptually 

 benefit would be commercial fishermen, yes, sir, and that would in- 

 clude the trawlers. 



Mr. Weaver. If I could add something. The statute in question, 

 18 U.S.C. Section 208, deals with financial interest, conflicts of in- 

 terest dealing with financial interest, so to really answer your 



