11 



thing is not working because we have a constant depletion of our 

 fisheries. 



Mr. Manton. To what extent might more stringent financial dis- 

 closure criteria deter service on the Councils? 



Mr. DeGeorge. I do not think more stringent disclosure is the 

 answer. The question is when and in what form should financial 

 disclosure information be provided to everyone. A personal invest- 

 ment in the outcome of the discussion and to what extent you want 

 to decide that these should be the exclusive decisionmakers is the 

 issue. 



I would put it another way, Mr. Chairman. I think part of the 

 perception problem is that only the people that seem to have a 

 heavy financial interest are the decisionmakers. I think that the 

 public has to be convinced that they also have an interest and that 

 those individuals are making the best professional and independent 

 judgment they can. 



That is why I believe that the members should be given the best 

 scientific data. I also think the lawyers that represent the Councils 

 should not also be the NMFS lawyers. There has to be a better per- 

 ception that the outcome of these deliberations are defensible and 

 fair. 



Mr. Manton. Finally, is the interim final rule published by the 

 Commerce Department on March 11, 1994, sufficient to address 

 your concerns? 



Mr. DeGeorge. No, sir, it does not address the question. 



Mr. Manton. Perhaps either yourself or counsel might outline 

 for us 



Mr. DeGeorge.As my counsel points out, he might want to add 

 his own comments — the amendment seems only to say that the 

 forms will be available at the Council meetings. I am not sure that 

 you ought to tack them on the front door, but availability is the 

 issue. 



I think that when there is a special interest that is directed to- 

 ward a particular issue there should be as much information avail- 

 able about the decisionmakers as possible. I must admit, Mr. 

 Chairman, I am not an expert. I have just glanced at this docu- 

 ment itself. 



Mr. Manton. Does counsel want to add anything to that? 



Mr. Weaver. Well, we think it is a step in the right direction, 

 but we do not think it solves the problem to the same extent the 

 Inspector General has pointed out. 



Mr. Manton. That concludes my first round of questions. I recog- 

 nize the ranking member. 



Mr. Young. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank you, 

 Mr. DeGeorge, for your testimony. One question that bothers me. 

 I have heard members say in the public perception. Have you expe- 

 rienced any outcry from the public other than a request by some- 

 one from Congress? Has there been a great banging on your door? 



Mr. DeGeorge. No, there has not been a great banging on my 

 door but I do get copies of what is in the newspapers, and I have 

 read a lot of that. 



Mr. Young. Well, to follow up on that, you know that there was 

 a petition from Emerald Sea Foods, Emerald Resources, Sea Hawk, 

 Sea Catcher Fisheries, Swan Fisheries, the Secretary of Commerce, 



