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ments, as I suspect at least one of you at the table, and I don't 

 know, Congressman Wyden, whether you provided comments or 

 not, but I believe you did. Congressman Kopetski, within the con- 

 text set up under the Magnuson Act, to receive public comments, 

 and that was the weight of our political lobbying. 



In the context of that, I think it's very appropriate, and I think 

 that's why the Congress and the regulations that Commerce im- 

 posed as a result of the congressional act, Magnuson Act, called for 

 that kind of public input, and I think it's very appropriate. I don't 

 buy into the concept that we used excessive political clout. We sure 

 haven't used excessive political clout within the context of the 

 North Pacific Council, where we've lost probably 40 percent or 

 more of our open access fishery. We followed the same process in 

 both arenas. 



I believe the problem is, with all due respect to the shore-side in- 

 terests in the room, the problem is the Commerce Department fi- 

 nally paid attention to what was going on, finally paid attention to 

 the fact that two competing U.S. sectors of the industry, one sector 

 was being totally disregarded by the council process at a cost to the 

 Nation. I believe they said, until there is justification under the 

 standards, this looks to us, and I'm speaking for them — they may 

 want to speak for themselves; I'm sure they will — this looked to 

 them like a purely economic allocation, which is a violation of the 

 national standard. I think they said, whoa. 



Mr. Kopetski. Well, Mr. Chairman, just a couple of points. I 

 think the North Pacific issue we could debate a little further, and 

 we don't have time for that. Do you know of personal phone calls 

 from the representatives of the Factory Trawlers Association to 

 Mr. Brown or to people at 0MB or to the White House directly in 

 terms of rather than just letters, but personal conversations with 

 any of the people in those offices? 



Mr. Blum. I was never present. I have been told that members of 

 our congressional delegation, ours being Seattle Washington's, did, 

 in fact, talk with the Secretary's office. I don't know of any meet- 

 ings with the Secretary. We provided input to staff at 0MB, we 

 being the association, with respect to numbers and that type of 

 thing. 



Mr. Kopetski. Did you have direct communication with Com- 

 merce staff, your association? 



Mr. Blum. The association staff, myself, and Mr. Gilmore visited, 

 with an attorney present. Commerce people on the allocation. The 

 normal type of things that get done when regulations are being 

 promulgated, nothing extraordinary. 



Mr. Kopetski. Do you know of any direct communications be- 

 tween your association and the Secretary personally? 



Mr. Blum. No. 



Mr. Kopetski. Well, you had better success than I. I couldn't get 

 any of those folks to return my phone calls. Thank you, Mr. Chair- 

 man. 



Chairman Wyden. I thank my colleague. I know this is very curi- 

 ous, and you kind of fall out of the sky into the middle of the whit- 

 ing war and try to sort out how you ought to go about making deci- 

 sions. Let me see if I can get a few issues addressed for me that 

 seem to be central. It seems to me, Mr. Warrens, that what you all 



