22 



can do is something that people feel very strongly about as they try 

 to look at these issues. You all are in a position to bring scientific 

 judgment and technical expertise to the decisionmaking process. 

 That's why we have a regional kind of body. What does everybody 

 else on the way to Washington, DC contribute other than politics? 

 Do they have the kind of scientific and technical expertise that you 

 all do on a regional basis to make these judgments? 



Mr. Warrens. In response to your question, Congressman 

 Wyden, it would be presumptive of me to assume that people who 

 travel from this coast to Washington, DC lack any scientific exper- 

 tise or other t5^es of expertise. However, the perception is that 

 once that trek is made to Washington, DC, it's fundamentally for 

 the political purposes of lobbying their position effectively to the 

 appropriate people in order to achieve a specific goal. 



Chairman Wyden. Let me ask it another way. Organizationally, 

 the bulk of the scientific and technical expertise is in this region 

 on this region's issues rather than in Washington, DC, isn't that 

 correct? 



Mr. Warrens. That is correct, and it provides a much broader 

 scope of information that we receive as a council in order to make 

 informed, fair, and equitable decisions in our opinion based on the 

 issue. I think the fundamental issue, at least as representing the 

 Pacific Council, that I would like to get across today, and you'll 

 probably hear it a lot more as the day progresses, is that we have a 

 system of regional management or fisheries resources which, al- 

 though it may be less than perfect, but certainly more effective in 

 dealing regionally, involving people regionally, and making much 

 better informed decisions like bringing together those people with 

 the expertise that you're speaking of, both scientific and economic, 

 in order to reflect the needs of the community or the region in this 

 case. 



This process, in our opinion, has been seriously damaged by what 

 we on the council perceive as somebody else having another day in 

 court without our benefit of being able to respond. It will be up to 

 you and Congress this year when we reauthorize the Magnuson Act 

 to address the problems that Mr. Blum has related to with respect 

 to the so-called conflict of interest issue, and I can tell you from my 

 own experience in a 3-day meeting in San Francisco 3 weeks ago 

 with all of the eight regional council chairmen and vice chairmen, 

 we wrestled with conflicts of interest which we all hear about, con- 

 siderably more so in the last year or so. Conflict of interest is 

 strictly in the eye of the beholder. If somebody doesn't agree with 

 you, then there must be a conflict of interest. The regional councils 

 recognize the Magnuson Act and recognize that under the regional 

 council process, there are going to be conflicts of interest. 



Fishermen will be managing themselves, but the language in the 

 act doesn't turn us loose by any sense of the word. We feel very 

 strongly that these decisions don't reflect the interest of the com- 

 munities when they're made in Washington, DC rather than in the 

 regions which are affected by those decisions. 



Chairman Wyden. Now, it's very clear from Mr. Blum's re- 

 sponses to my colleague that his members, after the decision came 

 down, the 9 to 2 decision, they went off and did some lobbying for 



