37 



ing. Why did NOAA remove the Regional Director who is heavy in 

 these decisions — taking him out of the loop? 



There is so much confusion here, Congressman, that I frankly 

 think that we should have a GAO audit of this process of how it 

 went on, and what was involved. I bitterly resent the condescend- 

 ing paternalism of "we at OMB" and "we at NOAA," and "we at 

 NMFS." 



I'm making up your minds for you for the good of the Nation. 

 Goddamn it, the Nation exists outside the Beltway. 



As far as undue influence, I know that Senator Murray got to 

 Ron Brown. That was publicly announced. I am sorry that your 

 memory is that inconsistent. 



When you get an association with a multimillion dollar budget 

 that holds its annual convention in Washington, DC 2 or 3 weeks 

 before the rule is going to be published, and spends most of that 

 time running around seeing Commerce people, I think that's lobby- 

 ing. I think it is heavy lobbying. 



I repeat. We were lulled to sleep, Mr. Johnson, by that rule that 

 NOAA put out the proposal. 



Chairman Wyden. Mr. Fisher, please direct your testimony to us. 

 Mr. Johnson isn't on trial. 



Mr. Fisher. I'm sorry. I know it. But he should be. 



[Laughter.] 



Chairman Wyden. We have had a number of differences of opin- 

 ion with Commerce, as you know. We appreciate hearing from you. 



Mr. Fisher. My last words on this subject is I plead for a GAO 

 audit. I pleaded for one once before in Alaska. The reasons we 

 pleaded for it were confirmed by GAO. This one needs a GAO 

 audit. 



That being done, I won't say anything else other than Mr. Blum 

 made a remark about efficiency. Nobody would argue the fact that 

 a factory trawler is the most efficient in terms of scooping up fish. 



But I believe what we should focus on is what is the best econom- 

 ic utilization of that product. In that respect, it does not fly with 

 the FC component. If you examine their record on waste, on dis- 

 cards, you will suddenly discover in recovery rates that they are 

 not as efficient, and particularly this year. You will hear words of 

 testimony as to the quality of the product that was produced this 

 year. 



They dump and waste considerable amounts. In my testimony, I 

 refer to figures. Now we turn to something else. In front of you, 

 you will see a dolly full of byproducts. 



We now have the opportunity, and we have had it for quite a 

 while. Damage was done beyond the primary process in the area. 

 The secondary process is by Commerce's decisions. 



We have the capability. We have plants starting up that can 

 take the whiting carcasses and turn them into several products. 

 The first is well known, fish meal/bone meal oil. 



That can be done to a limited extent by the factory trawlers, but 

 they still dump a lot of the carcasses. There are better uses of it 

 than these. For example, hydrolyzed products — there's a bottle of 

 one right here — hydrolyzed fish products that are superior to any 

 chemical fertilizers in that they can release nitrogen over a long 

 period of time, not releasing all the ones that burn the soil. 



