21 



What are the pros and cons of this and why is this such a dif- 

 ficult issue between the parties out there? Could you go through 

 that for me? Maybe, Don, you could start and then, Ted, whoever 

 else wants to comment. 



Mr. Bevan. Mr. Dicks, it is difficult for me to see why it is a dif- 

 ficult issue. If we look at the science and the science is not perfect, 

 it indicates that barging at the present time is better than the con- 

 ditions in the river. 



Mr. Dicks. And the way you do it is you gather the fish and then 

 you take them down on a barge, then release them? 



Mr. Bevan. Now does the Team look upon barging as a long-term 

 solution? No, we don't. We think that as soon as you can improve 

 conditions in the river so that they are at least equal to barging, 

 there is no need to do barging but they definitely are not at the 

 present time. 



Mr. Dicks. What do you have to do in the river? What are some 

 of the things you would be describing that need to be done? 



Mr. Bevan. The main thing in the river I think is spill and flow 

 augmentation but carefully done and carefully understood. Spill, 

 there is no question, that is the best way through a dam. It is even 

 better than barging around a single dam but once you spill over a 

 dam you put those fish back in the reservoir and experience and 

 measurement tells us right now that that is a very dangerous place 

 to have fish. 



I look upon transportation a little like I would having a loved one 

 in the hospital hooked up to an IV system. It is critical care and 

 it is not something that you want to do permanently. You want to 

 get your loved ones home but you don't accomplish that by going 

 to the hospital and shutting off the switches. 



Transportation in the short term simply is a safer way until we 

 prove that it is not, and the evidence is that it is safer, then we 

 should keep that as a major recovery tool. Again, I wouldn't want 

 to do 100 percent of anything. I wouldn't want to have 100 percent 

 of fish in barges during bad conditions like we have this year. 



I wouldn't want to have 100 percent of the fish in the river dur- 

 ing good flow conditions. I would want to be able to measure both 

 and know what is happening. We haven't been doing that. 



Mr. BOTTIGER. If I could explain it this way, I don't think I dis- 

 agree with anything Dr. Bevan said. Barging in low water years is 

 better than leaving the fish in the river. In good water years it is 

 probably better to discontinue the barging. 



That is current practice. That is what we do now. But something 

 happens in barges and none of us know why. If we protect them 

 from all the predation, if we protect them from the turbines, if we 

 protect them from everything else, the warm water while they are 

 in a barge, why don't more come back than currently do? 



We are seeing two-to-one benefits barging over in river in a low 

 water year but you would think there would be 10 or 20 times 

 more barge fish come back and they don't so something is happen- 

 ing. It may be overcrowding, it may be disease spreading. There is 

 something going on in the barges that needs fixing. 



Mr. Dicks. Ajid we don't really have the scientific information to 

 know what that is, Dr. Bevan? 



