23 



cover, if you will, for the mortality problems and we do understand 

 that in Dr. Bevan's mind if a patient, for instance, is hooked to an 

 IV that may be the best solution for providing protection and the 

 best care but unfortunately we know even those systems are flawed 

 and again the barging needs to be studied, it needs to be verified 

 for mortality. 



And as far as those particular conditions on nitrogen and the 

 other saturations, we too have problems and we do have concerns 

 that this saturation as stated is not exactly as high as being pro- 

 vided for by other agencies. 



Ms. Unsoeld. Thank you, and we will have a second round. 

 Rollie, it is clear that good people have difference of views on some 

 of these issues and probably part of the reason for that is the 

 dearth of data. 



What are your plans, research plans, to fill in all of that missing 

 information so that we can make the decisions that are based on 

 a little more than our gut feeling? 



Mr. SCHMITTEN. I can think of three areas in which the Agency 

 needs to begin, and has begun, additional studies. 



One, we have been relying on studies of survival in the years 

 1981 through 1993. Last year was the first year since 1981 that 

 contemporary science has been used to analyze the relationship be- 

 tween survival and flow rate. 



The other issue is transportation. It seems that if the community 

 at large is going to rely on transportation at least for an interim 

 period of time we should examine how to improve that system. I 

 mean that is again a scientific matter, and I think there is agree- 

 ment even in the Columbia Basin Fish and Wildlife Association, 

 which represents States and tribes at certain levels, that transpor- 

 tation is allowable. 



The third area is an area that my Agency has attempted, and 

 really we have a need to get out in front of, and that is both ocean 

 survival conditions and estuarine conditions. In these last two 

 years we have seen a tremendous decrease in our fishery stocks 

 and where we have tracked carefully through the river systems 

 somewhere we are losing these fish. We happen to believe that 

 with Congress' help we have gotten on top of the high-seas drift net 

 interception so something is occurring scientifically that we have to 

 find out. 



I guess I will add a fourth point — the most significant thing af 

 fecting salmon stocks today: if we lose our salmon, it will be be- 

 cause we have not done something about habitat. It is the single 

 most important element that faces fish and when you get outside 

 of the confines of the Columbia system and the effects of hydro- 

 power it is a habitat issue. 



Ms. Unsoeld. Dr. Bevan, you have expressed dismay in the past 

 as you got into your job of coming up with a recovery plan at the 

 lack of data. Are there additional areas from what Rollie mentioned 

 that you discovered were totally lacking in our understanding of 

 the situation as you came into the job? 



Mr. Bevan. Yes, Ms. Unsoeld. Let me just give you just a couple 

 of examples. One is a common data system. In 1985 when we nego- 

 tiated the U.S. -Canada treaty, both parties agreed to set up a 

 coastwide salmon data system. That has not yet been done. 



