36 



think that the results that we showed you today of the physical 

 modeling, are perhaps some of the processes which we understand 

 the best. The subsequent biological effects and chemical effects are 

 clearly more difficult and a next step. 



There were two studies mentioned in the biological opinion that 

 USGS is intimately involved in or is actually conducting — the 3-D 

 summer modeling and the transport of sediments and the locations 

 of the potential long-term accumulation of toxins in those sedi- 

 ments. We look forward to working with the other Federal agencies 

 and everybody who is involved in Massachusetts Bay to bring those 

 results to them. 



Mr. Studds. Mr. MacDonald, do you want to say anything? 



Mr. MacDonald. Well, I was listening to a Woody Guthrie tune 

 yesterday which had a reference to the laughing salmon making 

 their ways up the fish ladder at the New Bonneville Dam. I 

 thought to myself, it really is a lesson in humility to those of us 

 who have the role in this job to be building this thing. 



I certainly agree with Dr. Mayo, that I wonder what we will all 

 be looking at a hundred years from now as the implications of all 

 of this. 



For us, for now, I would like really simply to say one short thing. 

 This issue, over the last year and a half that I have been working 

 on it, has had a lot of public controversy attendant and all kinds of 

 opportunities for the real and the unreal or the plausibly real to 

 come into the discussion. I think it is wonderful how people have 

 pulled together and tried to create a climate of sanity to continue 

 to discuss these very very difficult issues. I hope we can continue 

 that. I know I saw the first today of what I am sure is going to be a 

 renewed discussion of these mix and match options that Peter Shel- 

 ley was mentioning down at the end of the table. Those options, 

 themselves, are emerging from our outfall studies which are them- 

 selves tied to our own interest in making good on our commitment 

 to some kind of sane contingency planning for all of this. So, if we 

 can continue to maintain this whole discussion with the commit- 

 ment to earnestness and sanity that I think everyone who has 

 helped us with the issue has tried to do, I think we will certainly 

 be well served. I am very grateful to everyone for that. 



Mr. Studds. What were the salmon laughing about? 



Mr. MacDonald. I think the salmon were laughing — as Woody 

 Guthrie said, "as long as you are going to roll on down to the Pacif- 

 ic, you might as well do us all some good work in doing so." So, it 

 is a good thing that those dams are being built to generate electric- 

 ity, make aluminum and chromium and everything else. The 

 salmon could laughingly make their way up the fish ladders in the 

 meantime. That was not so very long ago. 



Mr. Studds. Yes. 



Mr. MacDonald. I think there are plenty of people here who are 

 cognizant of the fact that it did not turn out quite that way. I think 

 the MWRA has to be the first to acknowledge that this is one of 

 the very difficult features of this kind of project. 



Mr. Studds. This Committee just returned from the Pacific 

 Northwest and did not see a single salmon smile, never mind 

 laugh. 



