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Senator Reid. S. 1545 requires EPA to coordinate its research ef- 

 forts with other Federal and State agencies to avoid duplication of 

 efforts. 



Are there any programs in this legislation which have already 

 been sufficiently addressed or could be better addressed by other 

 agencies, that you are aware? In effect, is duplication of research 

 effort a problem? 



Dr. Schaefer. I think that traditionally duplication of research 

 has been somewhat of a problem. It is one of the driving forces be- 

 hind the new National Science and Technology Council's activities. 

 Through the council, we are looking at all $76 billion that the Fed- 

 eral Government devotes to R&D. In the past, we have only looked 

 at bits and pieces of that. I think through the extensive subcommit- 

 tee structure that we have now, we are able to make sure that our 

 research efforts are targeted to the highest priorities and that each 

 agency knows what the other agency is doing. 



As Dr. Foley said, he is chairing one of the committees on toxics. 

 I am chairing one of the subcommittees on risk. I think we both 

 feel that these are very effective mechanisms for getting people 

 from different agencies together to discuss the programs and to 

 reach agreement on who is doing what and where these programs 

 should be headed. 



Senator Reid. And do some coordination? 



Dr. Schaefer. Absolutely. 



Senator Reid. Do you agree, Dr. Foley? 



Dr. Foley. Yes, I do. I think that is one of the major benefits 

 we will see from participation in the subcommittees. 



Senator Reid. Dr. Foley, it has been said that EPA is currently 

 unable to attract and nurture a sufficient number of qualified sci- 

 entists. 



Do you know the current breakdown of those that are in-house 

 and those that are contractors? 



Dr. FOLEY. Working within our laboratories, we have more than 

 1,100 scientists across ORD. The on-site contractor work force in 

 the same laboratories is a little more than 1,000. So there appears 

 to be about a 50/50 ratio across the organization, roughly. 



Senator Reid. What do you think the breakdown should be? 



Dr. Foley. Looking at the contractor conversion effort that was 

 part of the President's budget, and looking at what we have and 

 what we felt would be better done by Federal staff, the numbers 

 should be more like 75 percent Federal scientists and 25 percent 

 contractor scientists at our labs. That was our estimate. So with 

 the contractor conversion coming in the fiscal year 1995 budget, we 

 will be taking a step in that direction, but it is only a partial step. 



Senator Reid. I would agree with the direction. In this and other 

 areas, we have to be careful with the downsizing of Government 

 that we don't just play with numbers. It is easy to have less Fed- 

 eral employees if you contract all the work out. But you don't ac- 

 complish anything. In most areas, it is a negative factor. I just 

 point this out. 



Also, Dr. Foley, some say that EPA is currently too reliant on 

 outside contractors. You have indicated that maybe that is the case 

 with its R&D function. 



