25 



that we can display and discuss those with the public without 

 having any modifications or changes that could occur between now 

 and when the draft is completed. Once the draft is done, any and 

 all publics are encouraged to review the draft plan. And that's 

 what it is, is a draft. 



Senator Pressler. I see. So the basis on which you determine 

 your numbers also will be released. As I understand it, there's a 

 dispute over the method of counting, or at least people want to 

 know how you arrive at your numbers, and that will be explained; 

 is that correct? 



Mr. Sylva. Yes, Mr. Chairman. 



Senator Pressler. Good. 



Now in a designated wilderness area, as I understand it, fires 

 cannot be fought with mechanized equipment. What's the situation 

 if there's a fire in a designated wilderness area? What are the 

 ground rules for that? 



Mr. Sylva. Well, normally mechanized equipment is not used. 

 However, the forest supervisor, the regional forester has discretion 

 to use equipment like helicopters, which primarily doesn't degrade 

 the wilderness characteristics to help suppress fires. Normally we 

 don't use equipment like bulldozers. 



Senator Pressler. What is the annual cost of appeals to the 

 Forest Service? Is it decreasing or increasing? 



Mr. Sylva. In 1992, the costs were $84,000 for appeals and litiga- 

 tion for the Black Hills National Forest. And we're just now really 

 tracking those costs in detail. So we haven't really gotten a good 

 trend yet. 



Senator Pressler. I have some additional questions about the al- 

 lowable sale quantity, but I think that falls under my first ques- 

 tion. I think Mr. Vitter has pointed out very well that 3.3 million 

 dollars were returned to the counties from Forest Service lands. 

 You have pointed out the impact on local governments if timber 

 harvest amounts are reduced, and that will also affect main street 

 business in those communities. 



I do appreciate very much Frank Davis providing the Committee 

 with testimony from the governor. I tend to agree with the state- 

 ments of Governor Mickelson and Governor Miller. That has been 

 my approach. But I am here to listen. So with that, I am going to 

 thank this panel. Your complete statements will be placed in the 

 record. 



We'll call forward the second panel on the impact on small busi- 

 ness. Dave Meredith, president, McLaughlin Sawmill; Don Perdue, 

 president of Perdues, Inc., Rapid City; Bill Honerkamp, president of 

 Black Hills, Badlands and Lakes Association; Larry Mann, Govern- 

 ment Affairs representative, Homestake Mining Company; and 

 Larry Nelson, president of South Dakota Public Lands Council, if 

 those gentlemen could come forward. 



Dave Meredith, why don't you start off. 



STATEMENT OF DAVE MEREDITH, PRESIDENT, MCLAUGHLIN 

 SAWMILL COMPANY, SPEARFISH, SD 



Mr. Meredith. Thank you. Senator, for inviting me to speak at 

 this hearing. 



