32 



We are looking at big-scale projects now at a minimum of $17 bil- 

 lion to $18 billion when you take the Space Station, the Super Col- 

 lider, the engineering facility for fusion, and that is just talking 

 about the construction cost, not talking about the operating cost. 

 The Space Station is moving along pretty well in the sharing of 

 costs. 



But, in your testimony, you seem to be rather pessimistic about 

 the SSC and even perhaps the fusion facility. 



Dr. Weisskopf. I don't know much about the fusion facility, and I 

 don't want to talk about it simply because I am ignorant. 



As far as the SSC is concerned, it comes at an inopportune 

 moment for the Western Europeans because they are, in a way, 

 overextended. For example, I am spending a lot of time over there, 

 and I am still sort of a kind of consultant. 



I was not very much in favor of HERA. I thought they have al- 

 ready enough with the rest. But they did decide to build HERA, 

 and this is why this is an inopportune moment for them to invest 

 much money in the United States. 



Mr. LujAN. How long do you think before they could join in such 

 an effort? 



Dr. Weisskopf. I think that the situation, within a decade, will 

 change. This is why I am emphasizing the international exploita- 

 tion angle so much, because I believe, in a decade, sort of the 

 middle nineties, LEP will have produced a lot of physics, HERA 

 probably, too, and then the Europeans will much more seriously 

 think of the next step. 



It is an unfortunate point that just at that moment where we 

 would like to have influx from Western Europe — financial and oth- 

 erwise, construction — at this point, Europe is, to my estimate, 

 somewhat overextended financially. 

 Mr. LuJAN. Thank you. 

 Mr. FuQUA. Mr. Brown. 



Mr. Brown. Dr. Weisskopf, from your experience, could you ex- 

 plain to me how the scientific and the political community inter- 

 acted to develop the CERN organization? How did that come 

 about? Was there a role for the national and international scientif- 

 ic organizations in physics in connection with that development? 



Dr. Weisskopf. Very much so. I consider this development that I 

 have sketched shortly in the printed version as a really most im- 

 pressive international undertaking, because as I said, it was due 

 to the fact at that time the enthusiasm for common European ac- 

 tivities was very high, and strongly encouraged by the United 

 States. 



It was not only Rabi's intervention in the building of the big ma- 

 chine at CERN. We had the help of American engineers and physi- 

 cists. They were all enthusiastic about this idea of an international 

 lab on the European scale. 



Your question relates to the governments. Well, again, I do not 

 think that, on purely physics grounds, we would have gotten 

 CERN. I would say that at least 50 percent of the reason that the 

 European governments supported it quite generously was the fact 

 that this is— maybe I exaggerate— but I believe it is the only real 

 successful Western European activity. I mean, there are a lot of 

 paper-shuffling agencies in Western Europe. 



