33 



EURATOM was not a success, as you all know. The European 

 Space Organization is rather limping ahead. CERN had these tre- 

 mendous triumphs where it is now equal, some people say even 

 better, than the institutions here. I have my doubts. It is perhaps 

 better supported financially, but it is certainly equal. 



So these were the reasons. It was loved by the governments as 

 one of the few things that really succeeded. 



Mr. Brown. I am interested in exploring the ways in which the 

 scientific community, through their organizations, can interact 

 more strongly with the political community. 



Dr. Weisskopf. With the government. 



Mr. Brown. CERN is obviously a successful model. I puzzle over 

 the relationship here in the United States. I am not quite sure 

 what role, say, the American Physical Society plays in this process 

 of developing the SSC, and I would be interested in knowing if 

 there can be a more active role, or if there needs to be, or if we are 

 going to operate through the government bureaucracies as we seem 

 to be doing, mainly. 



Dr. Weisskopf. The physics community is, of course, much larger 

 than the high energy physics community. 



Mr. Brown. Of course. 



Dr. Weisskopf. The high energy physics community is, as you 

 probably know, completely united in this aim. The physics commu- 

 nity has helped. I have not heard, at least, any important criticism 

 or even feelings that you are taking the money away from some- 

 body else. Outside physics, the situation may be different. 



Similar things happened, of course, also in Europe. In Europe, 

 there was — again, the high energy physics community v/as ex- 

 tremely enthusiastic, and let me say one thing. They had very 

 strong personalities. In my life in science, I can say one thing:: Per- 

 sonalities are the really driving force, not only in science, as you 

 probably know. We had Amaldi, we had Sir Ben Lockspeiser, we 

 had Peyrou — people of very strong conviction and influence in 

 their countries. 



What you say here, I do believe that perhaps more concerted dis- 

 cussion here would be desirable. However, I am not too dissatisfied. 

 I think the Physical Society has committees discussing it and came 

 to a rather favorable appraisal. But, as in Europe, there are other 

 scientists that complain. 



There is now in Britain a movement for reducing the CERN con- 

 tribution, which I fear may have some effect and would slow down 

 the whole development and make it even more difficult for the Eu- 

 ropeans to contribute to SSC. So there are other scientists who feel 

 this science is oversupported. 



Mr. Brown. Thank you. Dr. Weisskopf. 



Mr. FuQUA. Mr. Stallings. 



Mr. Stallings. No questions. 

 Mr. FuQUA. Mr. Walgren. 



Mr. Walgren. You say in your testimony that there comes a 

 time when the cost and effort of the next accelerator is so high 

 there may be no other way to build it other than a world coopera- 

 tive way. How will we know that? When will we recognize that as 

 being the fact? 



