34 



Dr. Weisskopf. That is a very difficult question to answer. I be- 

 lieve we will know this. There are two things there: first, the cost 

 itself. It is always very difficult to say whether $4 billion is much 

 or not much because it depends what you are comparing with. That 

 is one thing. 



The second thing, however, is the readiness of collaboration, and 

 that, I think, is to some extent a political situation, whether West- 

 ern Europe, Japan, or maybe even some Communist countries are 

 ready to collaborate. That is more political. That depends on the 

 political atmosphere. Even between Western Europe and the 

 United States, as you know, not everything is so good as it could 

 be. 



So I believe the two conditions, that it is really beyond the possi- 

 bility of one country — as it was in CERN. In 1950 it was clear that 

 one country could not have built that machine, period, of course, it 

 was that spirit of collaboration. 



Now, I personally think the SSC, expensive as it is, is not beyond 

 the means of this country in the same sense as in Europe at that 

 time. So, these two conditions: First, it must be really beyond the 

 means; and, second, there must be a spirit of collaboration, not 

 only scientific but political, and so that would be the condition. 



Mr. Walgren. You indicated that much of what has happened in 

 science has been driven by the personalities involved. How would 

 you recommend us as a political organization trying to balance the 

 high energy physics off against the other elements of science, when 

 you say that so much of what happens is really determined by the 

 personality? 



It is very hard, as you know, to take account of all the needs in 

 science, and when one area is substantially more expensive than 

 others, that really sticks out like a sore thumb. And if it is driven 

 by a personality, then don't we have the obligation to try to over- 

 ride those personalities and go back to some kind of more broad- 

 based distribution? 



Dr. Weisskopf. Well, we have to be careful there because, with- 

 out personalities, any field of science is not going to produce much; 

 it will just run along the accustomed lines instead of innovation. 



I remember very well when Enrico Fermi, who was certainly one 

 of the great personalities, in the fifties asked for a 400-MeV cyclo- 

 tron in Chicago, which at that time was a very big thing. I remem- 

 ber, we didn't even ask, "What do you want to do?" If Fermi wants 

 that machine, he is certainly going to produce great things, and he 

 did. 



So, you see, it is not so much — if I understand you right, you say 

 that strong personalities have also a strong influence on you people 

 and try to have a better chance of getting money out. That is true, 

 but it is perhaps not so bad that it is so. 



Of course, one has to analyze whether this is just strong person- 

 ality to get the money or whether it is strong personality as leaders 

 in their field of science, like Enrico Fermi and others today, like 

 Leon Lederman. But I do believe that to give large amounts of 

 money to fields where there are no obvious personalities is a dan- 

 gerous thing. 



Now, fortunately, we have in our scientific — now I am speaking 

 quite generally, other sciences — we have a lot of very strong per- 



