156 



Then Einstein came along with E=Mc2, and scientists Uke Ed- 

 dington and Bethe got into nuclear physics. Those new concepts 

 were put together, and we came up with the thermonuclear fusion 

 model of energy generation in a star. 



All of what we do on the ground we can attribute to the concepts 

 that developed from trying to understand what makes a star like 

 the Sun shine. If we try to carry that to the present and say what 

 are we going to iearn by trying to understand what makes a quasar 

 put out its enormous energy, a quasar generates as much power as 

 1,000 or 10,000 entire galaxies of stars, and yet the core of this tre- 

 mendous energy machine can be compared best with the dimen- 

 sions of a solar system. 



We don't know how that happens. We talk about black holes. We 

 are driven to something which is so fantastic that you still have to 

 keep prodding yourself to say, "Yes, it's reasonable," because we 

 don't know any way out of it. 



Where that will lead to I can't predict. In these objects we see 

 phenomena that must tell us a great deal about physics. Some of 

 these quasars are projecting electron energetic particle beams 

 which reach a million light-years and still remain focused as a 

 beam. We talk a great deal about particle beams nowadays in a de- 

 fense concept. And before we can understand how to hold those 

 beams together, perhaps we better look harder at the natural phe- 

 nomena that do it in so many cases now. 



I am sure you have heard about the connections between funda- 

 mental particle physics and cosmology. We are talking about gener- 

 ating energies up into the trillion-electron-volt range. Now we look 

 at the sky and we find that there are stars that are producing 

 beams of high-energy gamma rays up to energies of 10^® eV, 10,000 

 times higher than anything we conceive of in a man-made ma- 

 chine. 



We are just discovering them. A year ago there was one. Now 

 there are two. And now there are suspicions that these stellar ma- 

 chines which are producing these enormously high-energy beams of 

 gamma rays are also projecting particle beams. 



There have been a number of preliminary claims that one of 

 these sources, Cygnus X-3, is actually projecting a beam of muons 

 which are detected here at Earth. 



These new discoveries shake up the scientific world, and they 

 sure draw the attention of technologists as well, because there are 

 things going on in the universe that we never anticipated, beyond 

 anything we conceive of on Earth. 



Mr. LujAN. Well, the bottom line is, I guess, there is enough for 

 both, for those that think of science for science's sake, and also for 

 those that would like some technologies out of whatever research 

 dollars we put in. The bottom line is that something is going to 

 come out, but we don't know at the present time what it's going to 

 be. 



Dr. Friedman. Yes. I have been talking about the scientific 

 breakthroughs. I haven't tried to get into the spinoffs. We men- 

 tioned them earlier. And then you can get into debates about 

 whether investing in the defense program produces technological 

 progress and spinoffs faster than investing in pure science does. I 

 don't know that anybody can answer that. 



