228 



Mr. Pedersen. Arabsat was built in a partnership between Aero- 

 spatiale and Ford Aerospace. I will have to go check on Morelos. 

 Well, it was integrated at Aerospatiale, but Ford Aerospace built 

 large portions of it. We see that happening more and more, that 

 satellites are built in contractor-subcontractor relationships, and 

 quite often the subcontractor has a piece almost as big as the 

 prime contractor. 



Mr. LujAN. Aerospatiale was the prime? 



Mr. Pedersen. Aerospatiale was the prime for Arabsat, I believe. 

 And I will have to check, Mr. Chairman, Morelos. I think I know 

 the answer but I would prefer not to give a wrong answer. I would 

 be happy to supply that. 



Mr. LujAN. You made an interesting point in your written testi- 

 mony, and maybe you mentioned it while I was out, that you don't 

 have a line item for international projects. Do you think that 

 would be useful? 



Mr. Pedersen. I would rather not. 



Mr. LujAN. You would rather not? 



Mr. Pedersen. My feeling is, Congressman Lujan, that if you 

 have particular amount of money that you are told to spend on 

 international projects, then you tend to not go through the kind of 

 careful scrutiny in looking at self-interest and what your own basic 

 programmatic objectives are. The danger is that you feel that 

 you're going to have to spend that money, you are going to have to 

 spend it on your international projects and you go out and, by gosh, 

 you find international projects, and they may not be the best ones. 



For the very same reason, NASA as a rule does not enter into 

 umbrella agreements. We do project by project. We don't do um- 

 brella agreements that say, "NASA and party X will spend over 

 the next 4 years $30 million in pursuing space." 



I think that we have done rather well. In fact, there are very few 

 programs — well, you are so close to NASA you know this — but 

 there are very few programs that NASA has that don't have inter- 

 national involvement. I think in almost all cases after we have 

 looked around, we have determined the international involvement 

 makes a lot of sense. 



So I think you're getting much the same result with a bit more 

 systematic process. 



Mr. Lujan. Thank you. I have nothing further. 



Mr. Packard. Mr. Chairman, may I just follow up, Mr. Chair- 

 man, on one question? 



With our discussion earlier on the cooperative efforts on a bilat- 

 eral basis, later on when we get into the use of Space Stations, actu- 

 ally the commercialization of Space Stations, countries that have 

 not been involved, where there are no agreements and they have 

 not been involved in the actual development and construction of 

 the Space Station, may want to come in and actually use the facili- 

 ty on a specific call basis. That in and of itself will bring about 

 some international negotiating relationships in terms of how to ac- 

 tually commercialize an international facility and yet divide up 

 closely. There are lots of little intricacies here that I can see would 

 have to be worked out. 



Mr. Pedersen. Yes. 



