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our local efforts — by local, I mean our national efforts — in terms of 

 our progress in science research? 



Are we looking at a choice, one with the other, or do you feel 

 that we can — and if there is a choice, how is it best that we make 

 such choices? Should we look more and more in the direction of 

 international cooperation at the expense of national commitment, 

 or vice versa? 



Dr. McTague. I think the proper way to look at this is that 

 international cooperation should be a mechanism for support of na- 

 tional goals. As we set our own national goals in the areas of sci- 

 ence, we should take a look at those areas where we can get a ben- 

 efit from international participation, and other countries should 

 also make sure that their cooperation with us is in their own inter- 

 est. 



So I don't see it as one subtracting from the others. Clearly, 

 there should not be a set-aside of funds, for example, for interna- 

 tional cooperative projects. The projects should be done on the 

 basis of their own merits and of mutual interest. 



Now, where one does run into problems, that will have to involve 

 negotiation or, for example, siting of facilities. Everyone, of course, 

 wants everything on their own turf. 



One should make certain that when one does develop interna- 

 tional cooperative efforts — for example, involving a large facility — 

 that it indeed be a facility in a field where international travel, et 

 cetera, is a feasible activity. 



High energy physics is an example of that where you literally 

 cannot tell what country you are in at a high energy physics facili- 

 ty by the people that you talk to. This community has adjusted 

 very well. Other communities have not yet because they have not 

 had to participate for so long at this level. 



But I think the important thing is that we find ways to negotiate 

 siting of facilities that enable all of the partners to participate ef- 

 fectively. 



Mr. Packard. More and more. Dr. McTague, we are finding the 

 private sector and the industrial community becoming more and 

 more involved in our scientific research, both on a cooperative 

 basis and striking out on their own. 



Do you think that the international effort will compromise that 

 move and reduce the involvement of the private sector, or do you 

 think that it would increase it? 



Dr. McTague. I think, if properly handled, it could be of benefit 

 in fact, also, to the private sector. Let me give you some examples 

 of the European experiences, where for many years they have had 

 to cooperate on large-scale projects. As they do so, they make sure 

 that each — for example, building a facility at CERN — they make 

 sure that each nation's industrial base has the opportunity to par- 

 ticipate. 



Now, they tend to do it by allocating, let's say, vacuum equip- 

 ment to Italy, electronics to Britain, or whatever, and that perhaps 

 might not be the best style for us in international agreements. But 

 we should make sure that our technological base in industry can 

 both participate as a supplier and can get joint information from 

 cooperative projects, and I believe that that can be done by proper 

 negotiation. 



