319 



coordinating that, and that is a proper role, but not one of adminis- 

 tering funds or working out final agreements and so forth. 



Dr. Skolnikoff. That is right. 



Mr. FuQUA. But maybe through that and the State Department, 

 since it does involve foreign policy objectives — and you had indicat- 

 ed that as one of the weaknesses of the current system — and also 

 maybe the NSF, which is involved in some small way, in some of the 

 programs. That does not mean to leave DOE, or NASA, or NIH, or 

 some of the other mission agencies out of that, but maybe there 

 could be a coordination through that. I am not advocating that; I 

 am asking for advice. 



Dr. Skolnikoff. Well, I have always felt for many years that the 

 Department of State could have a much stronger role, play a much 

 larger role, on issues of this kind. In practice, it has rarely done so, 

 and I think the reasons for that are, some of them, internal to the 

 State Department, but some of them have to do with the State De- 

 partment's general position in the Government on foreign policy 

 issues that affect science and technology. 



It has been very hard for the State Department to really follow, 

 coordinate, everjrthing that goes on. One could not expect it to do 

 that with agencies the size of Defense, Energy, NASA, and so forth. 

 But I think it has done less than it could. 



It seems to me possible — and part of what I did not read here in 

 the testimony was that it might be possible to, in effect, develop a 

 cross-agency or government-wide rank list of international scientific 

 cooperation projects. If something like that were attempted, the 

 State Department, it seems to me, would have to have a very cen- 

 tral role in that, and it would need help in doing that. 



Now, one of the other agencies that has a clear mandate for 

 international activities — and one always would hope it would do a 

 lot — is the National Science Foundation. It has tended to stay away 

 from major activity outside fundamental research in international 

 activities. 



I think if there were a possibility for the Science Foundation to 

 work closely with State on that kind of cross-government ranking 

 of projects, I think it could be very useful. But it could not do it 

 without very strong support from OSTP and, I emphasize, from 

 0MB, because without OMB's participation in this and willingness 

 to see certain kinds of funds be earmarked for these purposes, it 

 would come to naught. 



Mr. FuQUA. Mr. Packard. 



Mr. Packard. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Dr. Skolnikoff, I find your testimony very interesting and some- 

 what different than what we have heard. 



You feel that we have moved in the opposite direction of interna- 

 tional cooperation over the last few years. That is what I gather 

 from your testimony. 



Dr. Skolnikoff. No, not the last few years. I would say the last 

 20 years. 



Mr. Packard. OK. 



Dr. Skolnikoff. That was not a partisan remark. 



Mr. Packard. And, also, contrary to many of the other witnesses, 

 you have suggested, apparently from your involvement previously 

 in government, an agency that would supervise and coordinate the 



