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fishing countries have a responsibiUty to join and participate in re- 

 gional fishery conservation management organizations to manage 

 fisheries in which the country participates or to cooperate in proc- 

 esses such as the one the U.S. is leading regarding the Donut Hole 

 fisheries where regional organization does not exist. Do you want 

 international agreements? 



Mr. Gianni. The short answer is, yes, madam. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. Do not those agreements have to include enforce- 

 ment to be effective? 



Mr. Matlock. I would say so. Yes, madam. 



The Ambassador may want to add something. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. I am going to ask him a question. 



I would like to ask the Secretary a question to which I will give 

 you permission to plead the fifth amendment. Can we have effec- 

 tive international agreements or U.S. law governing or attempting 

 to manage international fisheries issues such as this or involving 

 international waters under — or are we given any means to be able 

 to implement those and enforce them — under any of our current or 

 proposed trade laws? Is there any other vehicle to use other than 

 our trade agreements in which to try to enforce international 

 agreements of this type? 



You see why I gave you an out before? 



Mr. CoLSON. I spent the morning on some interagency debate on 

 those kinds of questions. I shudder. 



Certainly the only thing I think that fits the bill of what you are 

 speaking of is the Pelly Amendment, and we have other laws that 

 address specific issues like tuna/dolphin or driftnets, but we don't 

 have anything directly to deal with this. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. We all know in the tuna and dolphin they were 

 found in violation of GATT, for example. 



Mr. CoLSON. Yes. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. Something is missing. 



Mr. CoLSON. There is a lot of disconnect between the laws of the 

 United States and the trade policies we espouse. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. On the international agreements such as the ban 

 on the use of driftnets, didn't it at least cross the minds of those in 

 the State Department that were hesitant about approving the sanc- 

 tions in U.S. law because that might be found in violation of 

 GATT? 



Mr. CoLSON. I am certain that any time the word "trade sanc- 

 tion" is used, in any agency of this government there is somebody 

 arguing that this will be in violation of GATT. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. I don't know where the handle is, but I believe 

 that you experts in fisheries have to be at the table when people 

 are discussing these trade agreements and entering into negotia- 

 tions. 



It is time that we placed, as part of our international trade 

 agreements of any type, the question of sustainable management of 

 natural resources, in this case fisheries. 



Mr. CoLSON. Well, I think that I can give you sonie assurance 

 that there is a fairly strenuous discussion going on within the ad- 

 ministration, which includes both resource agencies and the State 

 Department and the economic agencies, about how to come to some 

 reconciliation of the inconsistencies that we are confronted with. 



