22 



Looking at this issue, the increases in both seal populations and 

 sea lion populations can be attributable basically to one of two 

 things. Either the populations had been reduced to such very low 

 levels that they still have not recovered after more than 20 years 

 of protection or, for some reason, there has been a release from 

 something that was limiting the population historically and which 

 has allowed the population to go beyond what its historic carrying 

 capacity was. 



This is a very basic question and one I think was attempted to be 

 resolved in part by the definition of current carrying capacity in 

 this draft bill. The way I read the definitions, it would allow you to 

 look at increases in carrying capacity as well as decreases in 

 making the threshold OSP determination. 



Second, I agree completely with the point that we need to look at 

 the broad range of issues. And the basic issue is the status of the 

 salmonoid resources that are at risk right now. What are the 

 causes of the declines and how do we manage all of the things that 

 affect the resource in a way that we can rebuild it? 



Maybe the way to begin is by looking at the broad range of fish- 

 eries issues and the marine mammal issues within that context. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. But the impact is on more than just salmon. 



Mr. Studds. The gentleman from California. 



Mr. Hamburg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Just picking up on the gentlewoman from Washington's last 

 statement with respect to other species other than salmonoids that 

 are being affected. In my district in Northern California the major 

 concern seems to be the sea urchins and how they are affected by 

 the allowance for sea otters to migrate northward. 



I believe it is from San Nicolas Island where the population has 

 been brought back significantly and nurtured. And yet a plan from 

 the National Marine Fisheries Service — or is it Fish and Wildlife — 

 to allow the marine mammals to migrate northward to what was 

 perhaps their traditional grounds has caused severe concern in the 

 sea urchin industry in my district. 



I would like to hear if any of you have a comment on that. If not, 

 perhaps I will submit some questions, and you can answer them for 

 the record. 



[Mr. Hamburg's questions can be found at the end of the hear- 

 ing.] 



Dr. Hofman. It is a Fish and Wildlife Service species, not a Na- 

 tional Marine Fisheries Service species, as Dr. Foster is happy to 

 note. There is a Southern California Sea Otter Recovery Plan. 



I think what you are talking about is, the Fish and Wildlife Serv- 

 ice more than a year ago revised and updated the plan in ways 

 that were very confusing. The Commission recommended that that 

 plan be revised, and be made available again for public comment. I 

 think that is what is happening. It might be useful to put that 

 question specifically to the Fish and Wildlife Service. 



Mr. Hamburg. I will do that. When things like that happen, it 

 causes tremendous paranoia to take hold in my district. The people 

 start to say things like, well, the only reason they are doing this is 

 to allow offshore oil drilling to occur and they will wipe out the sea 

 urchin fishery which is our most profitable fishery now. The reason 



