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thority to use potential non-lethal means. We had a lot of discus- 

 sion of that with the commercial fishing industry. 



One of the suggestions on the table was to give up the right to 

 intentionally shoot animals. The thought was, if you can't shoot 

 them you have to have some method to keep them away from your 

 nets or gear. You have to harass them away. Under the existing 

 law, harassment could be prohibited as well. 



So I don't know that I speak for the group on this, but, from my 

 own personal perspective — and I don't represent recreational fish- 

 ermen — but it seems like they are citizens of the public as well, 

 and they should be given the ability to non-lethally deter animals 

 so the frustration level in the industry as a whole is reduced. There 

 is a lot of frustration, as you well know, on the west coast right 

 now. 



Mrs. Unsoeld, I would like to address the other side of the story 

 on OSP. Guy Thornburg is not here. He is not a witness. But I am 

 speaking on his behalf and on behalf of his group in this regard. 

 We don't believe this government can make OSP determinations. 

 We don't believe they have the political will to make OSP determi- 

 nations quickly and efficiently. 



One question that we would like to see answered for the record is 

 how many years of continuing data and further investigation is it 

 going to take the Federal Government and National Marine Fish- 

 eries Service to make OSP determinations on California sea lions 

 and Pacific harbor seals? 



We believe that they will respond under their existing model 

 that they need 5, 10, you know 15 more years of data before they 

 can do anything. In that event, we are in real trouble out there. 



The act will provide the States with authority to manage marine 

 mammals in an active way only if you have an OSP determination. 

 We think you need to assign a number. That is our personal view. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. Dr. Foster, would you like to jump on that one? 



Ms. Foster. Yes. You may wait a long time for the government 

 to do OSP determinations. But I would argue that it is because we 

 don't have the information, not because we don't have the political 

 will today, anyway. 



Mr. Gilman. Fair enough. I will concede that. 



Ms. Foster. The only thing that I can say to you would be what I 

 am getting from my scientists, and that is that it will take from 

 five to 10 years for some species to have enough information to do 

 OSP. That is why in our proposal we came up with a plan that 

 would get around OSP in a sense. 



Mr. Gilman. Not with respect to the management of marine 

 mammals. If we want to push the point we have to have a $1 mil- 

 lion war chest to do it. We are going to have to hire biologists and 

 a team of lawyers. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. I will reclaim my time here, Mr. Gilman, to also 

 reiterate that at some point the government is going to have to 

 make the decision on the best available data and recognize that 

 there be later refinements. I would submit that a 5- to 10-year 

 period is not going to satisfy me. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Hofman. I would like to comment. 



Mr. Studds. Very briefly, if you would, sir. 



