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Mr. DiNGELL. Well, first of all, we do not engage in this legisla- 

 tion or in the administration of this statute in defining, in going 

 into the kind of definition of the types of wetlands. What happens 

 here is essentially you have to negotiate an agreement between the 

 buyers and the sellers, with the Feds being only one part of the ac- 

 quisition organization. Usually we have State or local or private in- 

 stitutions, like Ducks Unlimited or Nature Conservancy. So it is a 

 negotiated undertaking. 



Now I want to say, parenthetically, something. I think if you 

 have a concern, which I hear in your comments and I am sure you 

 do, you are troubled, I think, about the way the Feds have been 

 engaging in and what people are criticizing as essentially being un- 

 funded mandates and coming in and taking over lands or take over 

 interest in lands and dictating the way in which lands are utilized. 



One of the things you should know is this Committee and this 

 Subcommittee have a tradition, going back to the days when I had 

 the privilege of serving here, of being very, very careful of the 

 rights of landowners. And in connection with this program, it is all 

 a willing seller program, as is the program on which Mr. Weldon 

 and I work principally, although we work on this also, and that is, 

 again, willing seller in connection with acquisition of lands for mi- 

 gratory birds under the refuge system. I cannot remember in the 

 25 years that I served on that Commission a single instance in 

 which the Federal Government condemned or took land from an 

 unwilling seller. 



Now, I will not tell you that it is altogether necessarily the action 

 of virtue, because, in dealing with that, first of all, we do not want 

 to have political enemies and political outrage arising because we 

 are heavy handed in the way we acquire lands; but, second of all, 

 we find, truthfully, that the acquisition of land and interest in 

 land, and when we acquire both leases and easements, and we ac- 

 quire fee title, that it is most cheaply done, most cheaply done, I 

 reiterate, by buying from a willing seller. 



So, as a result, the Commission, in connection with these projects 

 and in connection with the acquisition of refuges for the migratory 

 waterfowl will consistently wait long periods of time to acquire the 

 land so that we have the goodwill of the sellers. And you would be 

 surprised at how well that works both in terms of saving money 

 and in maximizing goodwill toward the programming. 



Mr. Taylor of North Carolina. And you let the waterfowl 

 make the decision what a wetland is rather than bureaucrats. It 

 has been my experience that the waterfowl in my area will go to 

 true wetlands, bureaucrats will not necessarily. 



Mr. DiNGELL. He is a pretty good judge of what is a wetland. 



Mr. Taylor of North Carolina. That is right. I appreciate 

 what you are doing and appreciate those two approaches. Thank 

 you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Studds. Thank you. 



Mr. Taylor of North Carolina. Mr. Chairman, you will always 

 have a seat of honor in this room. 



Mr. DiNGELL. I just want to tell you I always return here with 

 happiness. I remember what this Committee does, I remember 

 what it has done, I remember what you do and what the members 

 of this Committee do. All I can say is I am very proud to be back 



