29 



on. We have resistance generally throughout the agency communi- 

 ty, and I think something should be done by executive direction 

 that isn't currently being done to tell them this is an imperative of 

 the current administration. 



Ms. Furse. Thank you. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Chairman Studds. The gentlewoman from Washington. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Ted, when you said in your testimony that the Act needed to be 

 broadened for you to be able to be successful, were you referring to 

 the constitutional difficulties or something else? 



Mr. Hallock. Well, Congresswoman Unsoeld, I am in this con- 

 text speaking for myself. I always say that so that I don't get killed 

 when I go back by the other seven. 



In the past people have brought up the fact that if we were to 

 issue fiats to the Forest Service or BLM or the Bureau of Reclama- 

 tion or so forth we are issuing fiats to representatives of the execu- 

 tive arm of the United States Government which is unconstitution- 

 al. 



We are a State-driven regional entity. We haven't attempted to 

 issue such flats. 



So unless you change the character of our being, which you could 

 do by modifying our statute, in response to the Chair, I was simply 

 saying that probably this intra-Federal bureaucracy czar is the log- 

 ical way to go. I believe our powers, however, before I leave that 

 answer, should be broadened. 



For example, speaking for myself I believe we should have au- 

 thority over certain portions at the Bonneville Power Administra- 

 tion budget-making apparatus, those dealing with fish and wildlife 

 restoration mitigation. I am totally dissatisfied with the short 

 shrift that our entire program is getting from that agency. That is 

 indefensible. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. Thank you. 



Let me try to jump to another. A number of the species besides 

 salmon are in some stage of the listing process under the Endan- 

 gered Species Act, Kootenay sturgeon, bull trout, Snake River 

 snails. 



So what steps are NMFS and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service 

 taking to ensure the coordination of recovery strategies and opti- 

 mize the benefits of recovery measures for decline in species in 

 Northwest river systems? 



And as a follow-up, are the two agencies even using the same 

 definition of a species under the Endangered Species Act? 



Mr. Schmitten. Congresswoman Unsoeld, we started a year ago 

 recognizing the fact that in common drainages we had more than 

 one species listed, and the Snake River is a good example where 

 you have snails, bald eagles, potentially bull trout and salmon. We 

 sat down and reached an agreement that none of our listed species 

 should dominate what occurs, and even without formal guidance 

 we began to work an ecosystem approach which recognizes that 

 water was necessary for the survival of all the species. And so we 

 amortized how much each one got, and we did this cooperatively 

 with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. 



73-212 - 93 - 2 



