34 



human beings. So it is a very complex situation, but I think it 

 needs some simplicity applied to it. 



Now, our simplicity was that our head chief told us when we 

 could fish and when we couldn't. We didn't have numerous groups 

 competing for that right to have a voice. They had only privileges, 

 and I think that is why the tribes had asked originally that the 

 governments who are responsible, the Federal, tribal, and State 

 governments, be the authorities. We have got too many people, un- 

 fortunately, at the table, and too many tables, quite frankly. 



Mr. Hamburg. Thank you very much, Mr. Strong. 



I really appreciated, as I read through the rest of your statement 

 at the Forest Conference, the faith which you maintain that we can 

 move past this and the spirit that Congresswoman Unsoeld men- 

 tioned that somehow we can pool our best talent and energy and 

 will to move past these problems. 



I would like to ask Rollie Schmitten, if I could, I believe that you 

 commented recently that the regional fishery councils are merely 

 advisory to the Secretary or something along those lines. I would 

 just like to ask you to explain to me and to the committee what 

 role you see for the regional councils in fishery management and 

 what role you see that the Secretary and NMFS has in fulfilling 

 the needs of the Nation's fisheries. 



Mr. Schmitten. Congressman Hamburg, if you reflect on my 

 background, I was a State director and I still believe very strongly 

 in States' rights. Therefore, I am a strong supporter of the Magnu- 

 son Act and I like the council process. 



I think it is a democratic process. One of the things, if I would 

 have been asked the same question as Mr. Strong, is I think we 

 need full-time tribal representation. The Pacific Council, thanks to 

 the State of Washington, allows for one council member to be a 

 tribal member, and I think that it is imperative that we do that. 

 Having said that, the Act, not Mr. Schmitten, has stated that the 

 Council's actions are advisory to the Secretary and the Secretary 

 has the final say. I think we as council members need to perfect 

 our processes, when we send forward an action. I have only seen 

 two actions in my 15 years of experience ever turned down. Unfor- 

 tunately, we have seen two in the last year, and they were very 

 significant issues to the economies of the West Coast. 



I think we need a better communication between the Council, 

 the Service, NOAA, and the Secretary and Congress. I think it is 

 imperative that we do that, but still the Council process is a good 

 one, and we can improve it. We shouldn't throw it away. 



Mr. Hamburg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Chairman Studds. The gentlewoman from Washington. 



Ms. Cantwell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



I will have a twofold question which may save some time here. 

 We talked about scientific data and information. I would just like 

 to hear from some of the panelists whether you think that consen- 

 sus exists on the scientific data needed to develop a cohesive recov- 

 ery plan or do we need an independent body to actually develop 

 that for implementation? 



Second to that, the whole notion of coordination seems to be a 

 key focus here this morning. It is interesting that both Washington 

 and Oregon have implemented State land use plans. 



