52 



Mr. Jensen. One of the things that I think is important is that 

 the National Marine Fisheries Service should establish bycatch as 

 a high priority. It has got to be a national objective. 



We are going to get crucified over the years with bycatch and 

 discards, and it has to be a national objective. It has to come from 

 the government down to the councils so that it is put into effect 

 because right now we are in an extremely embarrassing situation 

 as an industry. 

 Ms. Unsoeld. Thank you. 

 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Mr. Manton. The gentlelady's time has expired. 

 Following in the order of seniority, Mr. Andrews of Maine. 

 Mr. Andrews. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, let me pick up on a 

 point that you were making in the last question that you cut your- 

 self off from, and that is the issue of market-driven approaches, 

 market-driven solutions. Many would suggest that it is the market 

 that has driven the fisheries into the problems that we are facing 

 right now to the point of extinction for some species, and I was fas- 

 cinated by the idea of market-driven solutions, market-driven ap- 

 proaches that could perhaps eliminate red tape, use some of the 

 market-driven incentives to do the right thing in terms of our fish- 

 eries. You mentioned that specifically, Mr. Jensen. 



I would open it to anyone, including Mr. Jensen, if you could 

 answer two questions: number one, are there additional market- 

 driven approaches that we should be considering that have not 

 been laid on the table at this point in time? 



And, number two, Mr. Jensen specifically mentioned the ITQ 

 system, and I wondered if you could address the issue of what hap- 

 pens to people in the industry who do not receive quotas? 

 How might we compensate them for their loss? 

 Mr. Jensen. Well, I can start out. Let's talk about ITQs. ITQs, as 

 we envision them, are transferable. They can be sold, transferred, 

 et cetera. 



We also envision that they will be taxable, so that there is tax 

 money raised by the transfer quotas. If I have an ITQ and I sell it 

 to somebody, obviously I made some money with it selling it and 

 then the Federal Government would get taxes for it. 



We would love to see that tax earmarked for fisheries to help 

 support the ITQ program. That would be one way of funding it. 



I think we should look at that seriously because that would be a 

 good way of funding that program. I think one of the things that 

 you have to look at is that, you know, we have limited entry 

 schemes in the United States. I guess I shouldn't use the word 

 "schemes", but we have the limited entry permits. 



It has created wealth for some people, but it has stabilized some 

 fisheries. We are talking about a point here, and anybody in this 

 room that is in the bottomfish business has got to know that if we 

 go to an ITQ program, you are going to have less fish available to 

 you than you have had in the past. Because I can just bet that the 

 total will be over 100 percent when it is all figured out, but I will 

 tell you, if somebody came to me and said to me would I rather 

 have $50,000 a year for the next five years or I will give you 70 

 now but you might not have a job next year, I know damn well 

 what I would take. 



