35 



another 14-year drift? I don't believe that the salmon themselves 

 can support another two-year drift, much less one year. And if the 

 failure continues, I believe, rest assured, there will be an attempt 

 to have legislative prodding, poking, pushing, some kind of forcing 

 mechanism, or investing that tie-breaking vote in an entity, like it 

 or not. 



Mr. Turner. Chairman Unsoeld, if I may, one thing that I would 

 like to point out is that, unlike 1985, we have a situation today in 

 which the decisionmaking structure gives great power to those 

 vested in the status quo, because that is the decision, absent a 

 change. In 1985, the status quo was unacceptable to everyone, for 

 a wide variety of reasons that we can go through if necessary. But 

 today, those who don't want to change are those who benefit from 

 the status quo. Those who, because of the need for conservation or 

 some other mechanism, require a change, are at a tremendous dis- 

 advantage. 



It is ironic; in one of Gary's points made about the Klamath 

 Council being a system delegated to the region, that is true, but I 

 might point out that in that regime, nobody fishes until there is a 

 consensus, which is an option that we and the tribes have put forth 

 before, the so-called nuclear option. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. Ah, that! 



Mr. Turner. Nobody fishes until there is an agreement, which 

 is a forcing mechanism we proposed. However, it was rejected. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. I had not heard that one before. 



The gentlewoman from Oregon, do you have additional ques- 

 tions? 



Ms. Furse. I do have one. 



First of all, I have studied treaties for a long time, 24 years, and 

 I have always thought of treaties as being between two sovereigns, 

 one voice from one sovereign, one voice from another. So this dis- 

 cussion is interesting to me, because here this Federal voice is 

 sounding like that is something new or different, whereas it seems 

 to me that is the sovereign voice that signed the Treaty with an- 

 other sovereign nation. 



Madam Chair, there are two alternate commissioners here, I un- 

 derstand, and both of them from Oregon, and I wonder if I might 

 ask your indulgence if they might respond to this proposal. 



Mr. Roland Rousseau and Ms. Kathryn Brigham are both here, 

 and if it didn't take long, to just respond 



Mrs. Unsoeld. At least one of them. 



Ms. Furse. Yes, sure, thank you. 



Mr. Meacham. Madam Chairman, I have an alternate from Alas- 

 ka as well. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. But you are here from Alaska, and Oregon 

 doesn't have anyone at the table. 



Mr. Meacham. OK. 



Mrs. Unsoeld. I would ask perhaps one of them to respond. 



Ms. Furse. Just a quick response to the proposal by the commis- 

 sioners. I don't know which of you would like to respond. 



Mr. Rousseau. I might ask which proposal? 



Ms. Furse. The proposal that has been made 



Mr. Rousseau. Oh, OK. The legislative proposal. 



