wilderness, wildlife and fish. For every timber job impacted, both 

 within the agencies and in the private sector, the Forest Service 

 and BLM could employ workers to rehabilitate, restore, and en- 

 hance in an environmentally positive way our national forests and 

 public domain lands. 



Studies show that 11,000 people annually could be put to work 

 just on stabilized watersheds, key to the survival of the salmon and 

 the steelhead, supporting the 60,000 jobs and the $1 billion fishery 

 base in the Pacific Northwest. So I think this is a prudent way to 

 move. 



I must say that as we gain more insight into these problems and 

 the scientific data which support them, obviously it is of paramount 

 importance that we make the changes in our land management 

 plans to reflect that knowledge and to set new goals and a policy 

 path which will, of course, attain the goals and concur or follow the 

 laws and policies that we have, such as the Endangered Species 

 Act. 



So I think that while we may talk about Forest Service and BLM 

 and public land management problems in the past, today we have 

 the information, and I think it is imperative that we move and 

 craft policy and land management plans on that basis. 



The gentleman from Idaho — from Utah. 



Mr. Hansen. That was George Hansen. I am not related in any 

 way shape or form. And I have a great appreciation for George. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from Wisconsin. It is 

 nice to be 



Chairman Vento. We have always wanted a piece of Wisconsin. 



Mr. Hansen. We always wanted a piece of Idaho, too, and Ari- 

 zona if I may be picky about it. 



STATEMENT OF HON. JAMES V. HANSEN, A U.S. 

 REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE STATE OF UTAH 



Mr. Hansen. I don't know how to respond to this. This is age- 

 old stuff we have gone through so many times on this committee. 

 We are here to review one species versus something else. When you 

 get into this thing, you can accept a lot of premises. It is like going 

 to court and listening to people testify about what this witness is 

 like. Is it a malingerer or somebody trying to build an unfair case? 

 You wonder who is really right. 



I am sure today we will hear testimony that will say that it is 

 the logging, that they caused the whole thing; and another person 

 will say it is the construction of dams; another person will say it 

 is the drought; and another person will probably say it is 

 overfished; and another person will say it is hatchery fish versus 

 the other one. And it is hard to figure out who is really right in 

 these particular situations of who does these things. 



I would hope that the subcommittee is a little hesitant and not 

 in a big hunr to start placing blame and pointing fingers. That 

 probably wouldn't answer the question adequately and sincerely 

 and honestly. I think we have a habit of reacting to things when 

 sometimes we are not sure what the problem is that is facing us. 



I look forward to the hearings because similar situations are hap- 

 pening all over the United States. I think we have to move with 



