72 



on the great work you do, but the extreme application of these 

 things is what worries some of us. 



Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have another committee to run to. 



Mr. Vento. I will have another round here, but I know, Mr. Han- 

 sen and Mr. Calvert, I expect we may have a vote. 



Mr. Hansen. I expect we will, too. Thank you. I appreciate the 

 opportunity to respond. 



Mr. Vento. Thank you, Jim. 



Mr. Calvert. 



Mr. Calvert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 



Certainly, the Endangered Species Act, while we are on this sub- 

 ject, is of great importance in California, since I believe we have 

 more endangered species than any other State and have more spe- 

 cies that are on the threatened list and coming up toward the en- 

 dangered category. 



As some of you may be aware, our area was one of the first areas 

 to get involved in species habitat formation and getting into 

 multispecies habitat planning. It has been very difficult working 

 with various Federal agencies. I believe the interpretation of the 

 law does not allow us to do that at the present time. 



Going to my question. We have noticed that, for instance, in one 

 particular species in our area, the population of the Stevens kan- 

 garoo rat has spiked significantly in the last couple of years be- 

 cause of the drought that has, happily, come to an end in Califor- 

 nia. 



Do you perceive that this drought was a major affect on the 

 salmon population in the Pacific Northwest, and do you believe 

 that the population in the short-run will significantly increase be- 

 cause of the drought ending? 



I would, I guess, direct that question to Dr. Tillman. 



Dr. Tillman. Yes, there is no doubt the drought was a significant 

 factor in the listing of the various salmon species. As far as the 

 time frame, we are still reaping the benefits of that problem be- 

 cause of the other four- or five-year life cvcle. So we won't be able 

 to see any improvements that may come because of the end of the 

 drought for another three, four, or five years. 



Mr. Calvert. I guess the question would be, as I was looking 

 through testimony on population, historic population on salmon 

 over the years, I looked back 100 years ago and saw the salmon 

 run was approximately 14,000,000. It has dropped to 2.5 million. 



The historic trend on salmon populations after periods of 

 drought, what would be the typical drop in population of salmon 

 after a long period of drought? 



Dr. Tillman. I am not aware of any information that would give 

 you that figure. All I can say is there have been previous droughts 

 in the history, recent history. In the 1950s there were droughts, 

 and there was recovery of some small magnitude after that. But 

 nonetheless, the downward trends continued through time to where 

 we are now. 



Mr. Calvert. The other question on predatory fish, and I guess 

 I am getting to the nub of the issue, which would be in relationship 

 to various industries, and I think we all agree we need to do a bet- 

 ter job in managing our timber industry and our mining and graz- 

 ing activities in the Pacific Northwest. But the drought and the ad- 



