76 



dustry, and grazing industry that we seemed to spend a lot of our 

 time on this morning versus the drought and versus predatory spe- 

 cies and marine mammals that are feeding on the various endan- 

 gered species, that there are other factors. 



I hope in the quest to find an equitable solution, we don't sac- 

 rifice on the alter of the Endangered Species Act very important in- 

 dustries in the Pacific Northwest. 



Mr. Vento. No, I think the concern is that the normal environ- 

 ment is not something we can legislate on but we can legislate on 

 the other issues that impact. 



We have to vote. We will be back for further questions of this 

 panel in a moment. 



[Recess.l 



Mr. Vento. The committee will try and resume its sitting. I 

 know that it is a small room, and I appreciate the cooperation and 

 apologize for any inconvenience. But we do want to maintain order. 



One of the problems is in terms of the agreements that you 

 made, or commitments, at the Salmon Summit. And did BLM make 

 similar commitments, Mr. Penfold? 



Mr. Penfold. Yes, we did. And as I stated in our testimony, we 

 are committed to making those commitments and adjustments in 

 our grazing plans. We have had a temporary impact of the con- 

 sultation process in preparing the documents and getting our infor- 

 mation together for consultation. 



Mr. Vento. I guess the bottom line in terms of land management 

 changes, you know, putting aside the other factors, I guess one of 

 the predators could be math, I guess, they are talking about seals, 

 I gather. But the point is that you think that these actions, in 

 terms of new requirements and grazing permits, are relevant to the 

 maintenance of the salmonid populations and to get out front of the 

 listing of these species. 



Mr. Penfold. Very relevant. 



Mr. Vento. I think that's the key. If we enter an area, I suppose, 

 of public policy, that someone were to suggest that, you imow, 

 there is a questionable validity in terms of these particular actions 

 to maintaining these hundreds of populations of salmonid that 

 could be listed, then we should be more concerned; but insofar as 

 the actions are relevant. 



And of course it does follow that many of these deal with mining. 

 I think that all of us understand the deterioration of siltation, the 

 loss of habitat. And I guess there is a new understanding about the 

 dynamics of these salmon streams and steelhead streams in terms 

 of what needs to be and how they need to be maintained. 



I note, you pointed out in your testimony, most of the witnesses, 

 the tremendous resiliency of the species to put up with a certain 

 amounts of adversities or stress. But when you exceed that stress — 

 and it is being exceeded — that these species are under stress. And 

 then when you have something like an additional loss of water, 

 then it carries over into the loss of the species; is that correct. Dr. 

 Sedell? 



Dr. Sedell. Yes. 



Mr. Vento. I didn't hear anyone use that word, "stress." 



Dr. Sedell. I wouldn't have necessarily used that, but yes, there 

 is no question that through a whole combination of factors, hatch- 



